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I think this is the crux many people fail to understand: obsessive love is bad, too, if it is non-consensual. I think it's not entirely fair to describe Crumb's

by hnbad 4y ago

I think this is the crux many people fail to understand: obsessive love is bad, too, if it is non-consensual. I think it's not entirely fair to describe Crumb's work as misogynist as it's intentionally so broadly obscene that singling out his portrayal of women feels incomplete and reductive. Crumb is misogynist in that he clearly sees women as an "other" and objectifies them by obsessing about features he finds arousing and grotesquely stylizing those he dislikes. But unless you're specifically trying to write an academic paper on his portrayal of women, I don't think pointing out that his view on women is problematic is very insightful or helpful. It's like pointing out the shoddy insulation of a house that's already completely engulfed in flames. Yes, the insulation is bad and maybe you can reclaim some of the rent from your landlord or sue the builders, but the entire house is burning down so who cares. Crumb's work is a trash fire. The only question is what merit it has once you can get past the noxious fumes.

noduerme 4y ago
Obsessive love is bad if it leads to bad outcomes, but Crumb himself has been happily married for decades. It seems very judgmental to pile on criticism of the style of someone's obsession - when most of his own work is devoted to disentangling those obsessions. It's also unkind to pronounce his work a "trash fire". Surrounded by hypocrites who don't have the self-reflection, intellectual honesty, or skill to reveal their inner dichotomies and turmoil, who are we to criticize someone for trying to download their inner mess to the rest of us? Sure, he's an easy target, but it's obnoxiously priggish to deride the one guy who puts it in print while you and your neighbors have the same or worse obsessions that cannot be spoken or named.
- hnbad 4y ago
  I don't see a difference between me calling it a trash fire and you calling it his "inner mess". His work is intentionally jarring and offensive. I think the more important aspect of my metaphor is that while these "noxious fumes" clearly create a barrier for his work, that doesn't mean there's nothing valuable within. It just means that it's harder to find out.

by hnbad 4y ago

noduerme 4y ago

Obsessive love is bad if it leads to bad outcomes, but Crumb himself has been happily married for decades. It seems very judgmental to pile on criticism of the style of someone's obsession - when most of his own work is devoted to disentangling those obsessions. It's also unkind to pronounce his work a "trash fire". Surrounded by hypocrites who don't have the self-reflection, intellectual honesty, or skill to reveal their inner dichotomies and turmoil, who are we to criticize someone for trying to download their inner mess to the rest of us? Sure, he's an easy target, but it's obnoxiously priggish to deride the one guy who puts it in print while you and your neighbors have the same or worse obsessions that cannot be spoken or named.

hnbad 4y ago
I don't see a difference between me calling it a trash fire and you calling it his "inner mess". His work is intentionally jarring and offensive. I think the more important aspect of my metaphor is that while these "noxious fumes" clearly create a barrier for his work, that doesn't mean there's nothing valuable within. It just means that it's harder to find out.