4 ms·

The Electric Car's Shrinking Role in Reducing Oil Demand

15 points by tuatoru 4y ago

devonallie 4y ago
I wish municipalities put a larger focus on human powered transportation like walking and cycling. So many high tech logistics solutions I see seem to try and cover for the fact that we’ve built our cities to be innavigable for people.
tuatoru 4y ago
Key points: a range of autonomous delivery vehicles will reduce the number of trips that families make, especially those in more built-up areas. Sidewalk bots that weigh 50 lb and move at 4 mph (already in operation); bike lane bots that weigh 100-150 lb and move at 12 - 15 mph (ditto); golf cart bots that weigh a few hundred lb and move at 25 mph (being trialed); large trucks on freeways, and eventually vans. Also, aerial taxis for slightly longer trips: 6-10 seat short range electric planes that can use small local airfields to fly point to point, up to 200 mi or so. The shrinking role is more about reducing annual mileage on the Camry in the garage from 12,000 mi to 6,000 mi or less, than it is about autonomous electric taxis.
- adastra22 4y ago
  For certain hip young urban dwellers maybe. I literally don’t have a single use for any of the things that you mention.
  - tuatoru 4y ago
    You never get anything delivered? Remarkable.
    - adastra22 4y ago
      That wouldn’t be substitutive of my own car mileage as your comment implies.
      - tuatoru 4y ago
        Increasing the variety of things that are delivered (and the percentage of purchases delivered rather than fetched), rather than you fetching them yourself, would do that.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - gotorazor 4y ago
        It must have, if you have done an Amazon purchase and had it delivered to your home. And, if it really hasn't for you, it has for the many millions of people who have substituted getting things delivered to their house instead of driving out to get it themselves. For better or worse, electricfication of transportation, whether that involves automation or not, is happening and will be impactful.
        londons_explore 4y ago
        I'm not sure most deliveries really reduce the recipients mileage. The alternative to Uber eats coming round with dinner 5 times a week is that you bought enough food to cook your own dinner when you went shopping on Monday.
        tuatoru 4y ago
        Wher I live, the supermarket has been doing deliveries for over five years. Up to 40 miles away. Closer deliveries could easily be made by low-speed autonomous electric golf cart sized vehicles.
        HermanMartinus 4y ago
        I agree with the fact that it's better to cook at home than order in 5 times a week. However there are many people who just don't cook, and I think that 5 Uber deliveries a week is better than 5 trips to get takeout (assuming the Uber delivery is done on motorcycle or bicycle compared to trips in the car).
    - lm28469 4y ago
      There is a big gap between what the average person does, what they need and what they should do. More efficient deliveries will only have one consequence, and it's always the same, everything you gain will be cancelled by the rebound effect
Eavolution 4y ago
I dont like how the world seems to be tending to be people stay at home, dont do anything, and be as efficient as possible
- yeuxardents 4y ago
  The movie 'Surrogates' comes to mind
- londons_explore 4y ago
  You know what would be even more efficient.... Fewer people...
  - Bostonian 4y ago
    No, that's not what efficient means. Most people are happy to be alive, and their existence is a good thing. Your comment is an example of misanthropy sometimes found in climate activism and environmentalism more broadly.
  - 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
    Perhaps but I doubt anyone here is going to publicly admit support for mass murder on the scale of hundreds of millions as a means of dropping Co2 output. At least not without enough hatred and resentment drummed up for whatever arbitrary label of people that's unfortunate enough to be the sacrificial goat.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      This seems to be regularly suggested here. And the general target seems to be the poor, because then you can tell people they need to kill the poor or become poor themselves. So it's a simple case of them or us. Literally the same argument that Hitler made: > The Nazi Generalplan Ost policy ('Master Plan for the East') was based on its tenets. It stipulated that Germany required a Lebensraum necessary for its survival and that most of the indigenous populations of Central and Eastern Europe would have to be removed permanently (either through mass deportation to Siberia, extermination, or enslavement) including Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Czech and other Slavic nations considered non-Aryan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
mlindner 4y ago
Rather ridiculous premise based on the idea that we won't be working in offices anymore. A trend from covid that's rapidly reversing right now. Too many people try to predict current micro changes into macro trends.
- syntheweave 4y ago
  Did you read a different article? This one mentions telecommuting precisely once in passing. The rest of it is about the unbundling of every other usage of cars for tripmaking into a variety of solutions that match scale of trip and cargo more precisely.
m1gu3l 4y ago
Daily dose of HN comment doom scrolling. Stay positive guys :)

15 points by tuatoru 4y ago

I wish municipalities put a larger focus on human powered transportation like walking and cycling. So many high tech logistics solutions I see seem to try and cover for the fact that we’ve built our cities to be innavigable for people.

tuatoru 4y ago

Key points: a range of autonomous delivery vehicles will reduce the number of trips that families make, especially those in more built-up areas. Sidewalk bots that weigh 50 lb and move at 4 mph (already in operation); bike lane bots that weigh 100-150 lb and move at 12 - 15 mph (ditto); golf cart bots that weigh a few hundred lb and move at 25 mph (being trialed); large trucks on freeways, and eventually vans. Also, aerial taxis for slightly longer trips: 6-10 seat short range electric planes that can use small local airfields to fly point to point, up to 200 mi or so. The shrinking role is more about reducing annual mileage on the Camry in the garage from 12,000 mi to 6,000 mi or less, than it is about autonomous electric taxis.

adastra22 4y ago
For certain hip young urban dwellers maybe. I literally don’t have a single use for any of the things that you mention.
- tuatoru 4y ago
  You never get anything delivered? Remarkable.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    That wouldn’t be substitutive of my own car mileage as your comment implies.
    - tuatoru 4y ago
      Increasing the variety of things that are delivered (and the percentage of purchases delivered rather than fetched), rather than you fetching them yourself, would do that.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - gotorazor 4y ago
      It must have, if you have done an Amazon purchase and had it delivered to your home. And, if it really hasn't for you, it has for the many millions of people who have substituted getting things delivered to their house instead of driving out to get it themselves. For better or worse, electricfication of transportation, whether that involves automation or not, is happening and will be impactful.
      - londons_explore 4y ago
        I'm not sure most deliveries really reduce the recipients mileage. The alternative to Uber eats coming round with dinner 5 times a week is that you bought enough food to cook your own dinner when you went shopping on Monday.
        tuatoru 4y ago
        Wher I live, the supermarket has been doing deliveries for over five years. Up to 40 miles away. Closer deliveries could easily be made by low-speed autonomous electric golf cart sized vehicles.
        HermanMartinus 4y ago
        I agree with the fact that it's better to cook at home than order in 5 times a week. However there are many people who just don't cook, and I think that 5 Uber deliveries a week is better than 5 trips to get takeout (assuming the Uber delivery is done on motorcycle or bicycle compared to trips in the car).
  - lm28469 4y ago
    There is a big gap between what the average person does, what they need and what they should do. More efficient deliveries will only have one consequence, and it's always the same, everything you gain will be cancelled by the rebound effect

Eavolution 4y ago

I dont like how the world seems to be tending to be people stay at home, dont do anything, and be as efficient as possible

yeuxardents 4y ago
The movie 'Surrogates' comes to mind
londons_explore 4y ago
You know what would be even more efficient.... Fewer people...
- Bostonian 4y ago
  No, that's not what efficient means. Most people are happy to be alive, and their existence is a good thing. Your comment is an example of misanthropy sometimes found in climate activism and environmentalism more broadly.
- 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
  Perhaps but I doubt anyone here is going to publicly admit support for mass murder on the scale of hundreds of millions as a means of dropping Co2 output. At least not without enough hatred and resentment drummed up for whatever arbitrary label of people that's unfortunate enough to be the sacrificial goat.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    This seems to be regularly suggested here. And the general target seems to be the poor, because then you can tell people they need to kill the poor or become poor themselves. So it's a simple case of them or us. Literally the same argument that Hitler made: > The Nazi Generalplan Ost policy ('Master Plan for the East') was based on its tenets. It stipulated that Germany required a Lebensraum necessary for its survival and that most of the indigenous populations of Central and Eastern Europe would have to be removed permanently (either through mass deportation to Siberia, extermination, or enslavement) including Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Czech and other Slavic nations considered non-Aryan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

mlindner 4y ago

Rather ridiculous premise based on the idea that we won't be working in offices anymore. A trend from covid that's rapidly reversing right now. Too many people try to predict current micro changes into macro trends.

syntheweave 4y ago
Did you read a different article? This one mentions telecommuting precisely once in passing. The rest of it is about the unbundling of every other usage of cars for tripmaking into a variety of solutions that match scale of trip and cargo more precisely.

m1gu3l 4y ago

Daily dose of HN comment doom scrolling. Stay positive guys :)