3 ms·

> I think it is a representative fraction of NATOs might. So we agree that a small fraction of NATOs power that represents likely less then most of each sepera

by _kbh_ 4y ago

> I think it is a representative fraction of NATOs might. So we agree that a small fraction of NATOs power that represents likely less then most of each seperate country is capable of holding back and likely defeating Russia. > And so Russia starts "partial mobilization" to match it, so will have to see how it plays out. Russia started a mobilisation (there’s no word of partial in the actual decree) because they are losing. But I’m sure that a bunch of conscripts in T62s will fare better then the current professional soldiers in T72s and T80s who lost close to a couple months gains in less then a week. > I don't know why some think it is comparable as it was yet another "bomb a backwards country" and run kind of war. Completely different goals, completely different methods, completely different repercussions. Iraq was a modern army at the time with dug in defences, they where also half a world away requiring a heavy amount of logistics and planning. Ukraine is on the border of Russia. > The state of Iraq army was a joke compared to modern Ukraines, less in size, extremely poorly equipped virtually no air defense, key Iraqi army officers were surrendering or even declaring that they won't oppose the invading force. Doesn’t look like air defence is doing much for Russia in Ukraine either “what air defence doing” is literally a recent meme that mocks Russias poor air defence. > The US had simply leveled the whole of Iraq, purged all the infrastructure and what they caputed was already reduced to a stone-age rubble, what a feat! This is exactly what Russia does except with added rape and torture of civilians And without the military progress either. > And the US couldn't care less what happens next with all the people, the territories, with bandits and other paramilitary groups. They just hit and then they simply ran to a safe haven beyond the ocean. I don’t think that the people digging mass graves for civilians care what’s happening to them either. > No one had fought an actual real modern army before, no one cared about infrastructure (and likely Russia won't be too, judging by recent Zelensky's speech) Russia has been bombing infrastructure and civilian targets from day 1, they don’t care about infrastructure either. > Completely and totally incomparable. Id still say it’s pretty comparable given it’s distance. But I can understand why others wouldn’t. It kinda makes Russias army look pathetic, but then again that’s what they are.

foverzar 4y ago
You are rather misinformed on specifics and nuances, thus building your arguments on quite a lot of false assumptions, but at this point I'm kinda lazy to address multiple points at the same time. Consider that quite a lot of what you hear is a wartime propaganda and everyone is lying. But, one could treat this as kind of a poker game and infer quite a lot from it: e.g. in his last speech Zelensky accused Russia of attacking infrastructure. But why would he do that if that was supposedly true from day 1? Why the sudden change of rhetoric on what is supposed to be non-news and yet-another-day-of-the-same-thing? Maybe cuz this time Russians had actually started doing this on purpose, rather than as random collateral? Same for all the "evil Russians rape and torture" - Zelensky ended up firing the official who was pushing this narrative. Why? Maybe cuz their latest ramblings became so incoherent, it might have caused suspicion and could have hurt the public image? > Id still say it’s pretty comparable given it’s distance. Distance to what? IMO, the most comparable thing to Iraq would be Russian campaign in Syria.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > Same for all the "evil Russians rape and torture" - Zelensky ended up firing the official who was pushing this narrative. Why? Maybe cuz their latest ramblings became so incoherent, it might have caused suspicion and could have hurt the public image? Perfect timing, you can now read the independent UN report that says Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine. https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/09/update-chair-independent-international-commission-inquiry-ukraine-51st-session https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/09/update-chair-ind... ill quote it for you. "The Commission has documented cases in which children have been raped, tortured, and unlawfully confined. Children have also been killed and injured in indiscriminate attacks with explosive weapons. The exposure to repeated explosions, crimes, forced displacement and separation from family members deeply affected their well-being and mental health.". > Distance to what? IMO, the most comparable thing to Iraq would be Russian campaign in Syria. Its distance from the countries fighting the actual war, in Iraq countries where fighting a war thousands of kilometres way from them, in Ukraine Russia is fighting on its doorstep and still failing.
  - foverzar 4y ago
    Thanks, I'll definitely thoroughly. I can already see that it doesn't actually say "Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine". May I ask why did you decide to lie and misrepresent the report? Would be curious to compare it with Ukraine's normal numbers. > Its distance from the countries fighting the actual war, in Iraq countries where fighting a war thousands of kilometres way from them, in Ukraine Russia is fighting on its doorstep and still failing. Ok, clearly, you haven't read all the parts where I describes the difference of "hit and run" and fighting near the border. The US can't even secure it's border against civilians and had to build a wall. Even it's border patrol is a branch of customs, rather than a branch of military. I feel like you ignore the difference between simple "hit and run" and complex territorial defense on purpose.

by _kbh_ 4y ago

foverzar 4y ago

You are rather misinformed on specifics and nuances, thus building your arguments on quite a lot of false assumptions, but at this point I'm kinda lazy to address multiple points at the same time. Consider that quite a lot of what you hear is a wartime propaganda and everyone is lying. But, one could treat this as kind of a poker game and infer quite a lot from it: e.g. in his last speech Zelensky accused Russia of attacking infrastructure. But why would he do that if that was supposedly true from day 1? Why the sudden change of rhetoric on what is supposed to be non-news and yet-another-day-of-the-same-thing? Maybe cuz this time Russians had actually started doing this on purpose, rather than as random collateral? Same for all the "evil Russians rape and torture" - Zelensky ended up firing the official who was pushing this narrative. Why? Maybe cuz their latest ramblings became so incoherent, it might have caused suspicion and could have hurt the public image? > Id still say it’s pretty comparable given it’s distance. Distance to what? IMO, the most comparable thing to Iraq would be Russian campaign in Syria.

_kbh_ 4y ago
> Same for all the "evil Russians rape and torture" - Zelensky ended up firing the official who was pushing this narrative. Why? Maybe cuz their latest ramblings became so incoherent, it might have caused suspicion and could have hurt the public image? Perfect timing, you can now read the independent UN report that says Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine. https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/09/update-chair-independent-international-commission-inquiry-ukraine-51st-session https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2022/09/update-chair-ind... ill quote it for you. "The Commission has documented cases in which children have been raped, tortured, and unlawfully confined. Children have also been killed and injured in indiscriminate attacks with explosive weapons. The exposure to repeated explosions, crimes, forced displacement and separation from family members deeply affected their well-being and mental health.". > Distance to what? IMO, the most comparable thing to Iraq would be Russian campaign in Syria. Its distance from the countries fighting the actual war, in Iraq countries where fighting a war thousands of kilometres way from them, in Ukraine Russia is fighting on its doorstep and still failing.
- foverzar 4y ago
  Thanks, I'll definitely thoroughly. I can already see that it doesn't actually say "Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine". May I ask why did you decide to lie and misrepresent the report? Would be curious to compare it with Ukraine's normal numbers. > Its distance from the countries fighting the actual war, in Iraq countries where fighting a war thousands of kilometres way from them, in Ukraine Russia is fighting on its doorstep and still failing. Ok, clearly, you haven't read all the parts where I describes the difference of "hit and run" and fighting near the border. The US can't even secure it's border against civilians and had to build a wall. Even it's border patrol is a branch of customs, rather than a branch of military. I feel like you ignore the difference between simple "hit and run" and complex territorial defense on purpose.