5 ms·

> Just try to get it to not start at login... God, why do PMs push this crap. Like users are picking their communication software of the day based on what pop

> Just try to get it to not start at login... God, why do PMs push this crap. Like users are picking their communication software of the day based on what pops up into their face.

bluGill 4y ago
Communication software needs to run in case someone wants to contact you. It should start in the background though.
- jknoepfler 4y ago
  Communications software needs to run when and only when I want it to run. Who in the heck are you to tell me when to run an application on a device I own?
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    Thank you, we need more of this mentality. I am in charge of my computer, not some tech company product manager 1,000 miles away. If I don't command my computer to run a program, it should not run it. If I don't think some company's messenger application should run in the background on startup, it should not run in the background on startup.
  - Kostic 4y ago
    Do you also start/stop the modem on your phone whenever you need it? For the majority of people it makes sense to have a comms app always running as they come to expect that from the smartphones. Granted, there should be an easy way to configure this behavior for advanced users.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      > Do you also start/stop the modem on your phone whenever you need it? Yes, I do (effectively). My phone spends a large percentage of the day in airplane mode.
    - ajot 4y ago
      Although a smartphone is a computer (and a pretty powerful one while we are at it), I see it as a communication device. It's main purpose for me is to chat and talk with other people, so I want the modem working as much as it can, or I could miss a call from my granma. Even though I can watch videos (and you could say broadcasting/streaming is a form of communication, just a simplex one) or browse the Web[0], I identify a smartphone as a communication device. That's why I miss hardware keyboards a lot! In contrast, I see a computer as a general purpose machine. Sure, I don't turn off the WiFi of my laptop, or the router/AP from my house, but those are means to many ends. When I want to check mails on my computer, I launch Thunderbird, and when I want instant mesaaging, I use whatever program/WebApp I need. [0] As I am now doing, writing a comment in HN is a PITA in a smartphone.
      - nailer 4y ago
        How do you handle incoming calls if you’re not running?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - vel0city 4y ago
        With Teams, my laptop is also my phone. Really, my old DID for my desk phone is now my Teams number. Same thing with Signal. I routinely take/place calls with friends and family through the desktop client. If I'm on my computer and I've got my computer headset on, I might as well take the call on the computer instead of taking off the headset and using yet another device. As my computer is a general purpose device, one of its many purposes is also a communications device.
        jknoepfler 4y ago
        And as such, it should serve as a communication device when and only when I want it to.
        4y ago
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - jknoepfler 4y ago
      I think we should strongly encourage everyone to be both more aware and more in control of the devices and applications they elect to use.
    - safety1st 4y ago
      > Do you also start/stop the modem on your phone whenever you need it? That would be a slightly different way of accomplishing what I already do (silence everything on my phone, and in general, try to prevent it from bugging me when I'm not actively using it). It wouldn't be a bad approach at all if it made the phone shut the fuck up. The smartphone is one of the best examples on the market of product managers mistaking addiction triggers and "engagement" metrics for evidence of good user experience.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    No, communications software needs to be in the background ready to use at an instant when needed. There are many people who need more personal discipline to not contact people constantly, but the software itself should be ready for the times when they should contact you, interrupting whatever it is you were doing.
    - costcofries 4y ago
      dear lord, I hope you're not a PM at Microsoft.
- Woeps 4y ago
  Wait wüt.... Regardless of software, I decide when I'm available to be contacted... not somebody else. I already mute all notifications/ringtones on the phone when I want to focus, why should we also start doing this on computers?
  - leetnewb 4y ago
    Optimist view: Teams replaces desk phones at some (many?) companies. Relying on the average user to open an application to be able to receive phone calls is asking a lot, and is potentially ripe for abuse. Pessimist view: Companies gain the ability to covertly track presence, which isn't feasible if Teams is left to the user to open.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    What makes you as a human more valuable than other animals is your ability to communicate. As if your have everything muted you are making yourself less valuable. The ability to focus without distraction for short periods is okay, but as a human you need to be available to communicate with others the vast majority of the time. You will get less done in total, but what you do get done is so much more valuable to humans as a whole that it is worth the loss of focus. It was a real mind blower when I realized that, I still get frustrated at times with my inability to get hard things done quickly, but in return I get much more important things done with the help of others.
    - Woeps 4y ago
      "What makes you as a human more valuable than other animals is your ability to communicate. As if your have everything muted you are making yourself less valuable." That's a nice hypothesis. do you happen to have some research or such regarding this. that could be a nice read :) And it seems you agree with the original intent of my message. There is a time a place for being focused/left alone. And it's not up to a piece of software (or other humans) to decide this on a permanent basis. also regarding "You will get less done in total, but what you do get done is so much more valuable to humans as a whole that it is worth the loss of focus." It's funny because I have the opposite experience. Guess everybody is different in this regard.

> Just try to get it to not start at login... God, why do PMs push this crap. Like users are picking their communication software of the day based on what pops up into their face.

bluGill 4y ago

Communication software needs to run in case someone wants to contact you. It should start in the background though.

jknoepfler 4y ago
Communications software needs to run when and only when I want it to run. Who in the heck are you to tell me when to run an application on a device I own?
- ryandrake 4y ago
  Thank you, we need more of this mentality. I am in charge of my computer, not some tech company product manager 1,000 miles away. If I don't command my computer to run a program, it should not run it. If I don't think some company's messenger application should run in the background on startup, it should not run in the background on startup.
- Kostic 4y ago
  Do you also start/stop the modem on your phone whenever you need it? For the majority of people it makes sense to have a comms app always running as they come to expect that from the smartphones. Granted, there should be an easy way to configure this behavior for advanced users.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > Do you also start/stop the modem on your phone whenever you need it? Yes, I do (effectively). My phone spends a large percentage of the day in airplane mode.
  - ajot 4y ago
    Although a smartphone is a computer (and a pretty powerful one while we are at it), I see it as a communication device. It's main purpose for me is to chat and talk with other people, so I want the modem working as much as it can, or I could miss a call from my granma. Even though I can watch videos (and you could say broadcasting/streaming is a form of communication, just a simplex one) or browse the Web[0], I identify a smartphone as a communication device. That's why I miss hardware keyboards a lot! In contrast, I see a computer as a general purpose machine. Sure, I don't turn off the WiFi of my laptop, or the router/AP from my house, but those are means to many ends. When I want to check mails on my computer, I launch Thunderbird, and when I want instant mesaaging, I use whatever program/WebApp I need. [0] As I am now doing, writing a comment in HN is a PITA in a smartphone.
    - nailer 4y ago
      How do you handle incoming calls if you’re not running?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - vel0city 4y ago
      With Teams, my laptop is also my phone. Really, my old DID for my desk phone is now my Teams number. Same thing with Signal. I routinely take/place calls with friends and family through the desktop client. If I'm on my computer and I've got my computer headset on, I might as well take the call on the computer instead of taking off the headset and using yet another device. As my computer is a general purpose device, one of its many purposes is also a communications device.
      - jknoepfler 4y ago
        And as such, it should serve as a communication device when and only when I want it to.
        4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jknoepfler 4y ago
    I think we should strongly encourage everyone to be both more aware and more in control of the devices and applications they elect to use.
  - safety1st 4y ago
    > Do you also start/stop the modem on your phone whenever you need it? That would be a slightly different way of accomplishing what I already do (silence everything on my phone, and in general, try to prevent it from bugging me when I'm not actively using it). It wouldn't be a bad approach at all if it made the phone shut the fuck up. The smartphone is one of the best examples on the market of product managers mistaking addiction triggers and "engagement" metrics for evidence of good user experience.
- bluGill 4y ago
  No, communications software needs to be in the background ready to use at an instant when needed. There are many people who need more personal discipline to not contact people constantly, but the software itself should be ready for the times when they should contact you, interrupting whatever it is you were doing.
  - costcofries 4y ago
    dear lord, I hope you're not a PM at Microsoft.
Woeps 4y ago
Wait wüt.... Regardless of software, I decide when I'm available to be contacted... not somebody else. I already mute all notifications/ringtones on the phone when I want to focus, why should we also start doing this on computers?
- leetnewb 4y ago
  Optimist view: Teams replaces desk phones at some (many?) companies. Relying on the average user to open an application to be able to receive phone calls is asking a lot, and is potentially ripe for abuse. Pessimist view: Companies gain the ability to covertly track presence, which isn't feasible if Teams is left to the user to open.
- bluGill 4y ago
  What makes you as a human more valuable than other animals is your ability to communicate. As if your have everything muted you are making yourself less valuable. The ability to focus without distraction for short periods is okay, but as a human you need to be available to communicate with others the vast majority of the time. You will get less done in total, but what you do get done is so much more valuable to humans as a whole that it is worth the loss of focus. It was a real mind blower when I realized that, I still get frustrated at times with my inability to get hard things done quickly, but in return I get much more important things done with the help of others.
  - Woeps 4y ago
    "What makes you as a human more valuable than other animals is your ability to communicate. As if your have everything muted you are making yourself less valuable." That's a nice hypothesis. do you happen to have some research or such regarding this. that could be a nice read :) And it seems you agree with the original intent of my message. There is a time a place for being focused/left alone. And it's not up to a piece of software (or other humans) to decide this on a permanent basis. also regarding "You will get less done in total, but what you do get done is so much more valuable to humans as a whole that it is worth the loss of focus." It's funny because I have the opposite experience. Guess everybody is different in this regard.