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Utter nonsense. Sincerely, A person who grew up in apartheid South Africa

DangitBobby 4y ago
Can you elaborate on that?
bin_bash 4y ago
Agreed, for others: the "Mandela effect" is a fake idea that there are things that we collectively remember wrong because of various pseudoscientific claims. It's like a conspiracy theory. It's called the "Mandela" effect based on the ridiculous claim that some people think that Nelson Mandela died in prison. That's absurd since it was after he was in prison that he did his most famous acts like becoming president and ending apartheid. The number of people that think he died in prison has to be vanishingly few. For someone that grew up in Apartheid South Africa I can't imagine how insulting this would be. People use it as an excuse when they remember anything wrong, just look at the subreddit and these ridiculous claims: https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/xg5a8o/meet_the_millers_or_were_the_millersmandela_effect/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/xg5a8o/meet_... JJ McCullough did a great video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKujYkEmwWM&themeRefresh=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKujYkEmwWM&themeRefresh=1
- Moodles 4y ago
  I think your reply is a little too strident. It’s not a “fake idea”. It’s just someone’s idea. I hadn’t heard of it but I googled it upon reading this thread and it seems to be the idea that people tend to collectively remember things inaccurately in the exact same way. That phenomenon alone seems pretty plausible and not that dumb or fake, right? But what isn’t plausible is the part you left out that’s talked about in the video? That some people explain the Mandela effect through pseudoscientific bullshit like alternative timelines merging. You also seem to conflate the ridiculousness of what some people collectively remember with the Mandela effect concept as a whole. It’s a bit like saying hypnosis as an idea is dumb because people do dumb things when hypnotised? I also don’t understand what is deeply offensive about people misremembering that Mandela died in prison? They’re not saying (or even remembering) that he was a bad person, probably the opposite, they’re just ignorant of history. But having said all that I am perplexed by the OP comment: “I can’t help but think the Mandela effect is an example”. An example of what? Cracks in spacetime? Because yeah that’s dumb, though probably a joke.
- Tade0 4y ago
  I grew up thinking he died in the late 90s, but that was just him retiring from politics.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  >For someone that grew up in Apartheid South Africa I can't imagine how insulting this would be. Maybe it's just too early, but why would it be offensive? Flabbergasting, sure, but offensive? I imagine if someone told me they thought the sky was red my jaw would drop, but I wouldn't be angry.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    Imagine a subset of people saying that there’s a phenomenon of people that believe MLK died in the 50’s of a heart attack. People that seriously believe Mandela died in prison isn’t offensive, but I doubt these exist in any significant number. People claiming that it’s even possible that you could believe that is offensive since it implies his most effective years and actions never happened.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      >People claiming that it’s even possible that you could believe that is offensive since it implies his most effective years and actions never happened. I think that is reading into it too much. There are lots of other less offensive implications. People are often unaware, uncritical, and misinformed. You can think this about a significant number of people while personally agreeing that Mendela had a large impact
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  Call it then Berenstain Effect then
  - smeej 4y ago
    I had heard about this effect (whatever you want to call it) a few years ago, but I remember things as the evidence shows they happened (ironically, with the exception of Mandela specifically, but I remember it differently than the group of others), so I had generally chalked it up to "when faulty memory meets Reddit." Recently, though, I'm running into a weird one. In the last two months, I have encountered multiple incidents where people are either capitalizing "the Internet," or writing about why it's mainstream enough now that we don't need to capitalize "Internet." In my timeline, no one, and I mean NO ONE, had been capitalizing "internet" for at least fifteen years, and it was only really old people who did for five. It looks ridiculous to me even to see it. I can't account for this change by any normal means, and it's been really eerie!
    - jcims 4y ago
      That sounds more like Baader-Meinhoff. Which I just had to look up earlier this week for the first time in probably a decade. xD (I’m one of those old heads that still capitalize it btw)
  - someweirdperson 4y ago
    The I am your father, Luke - effect.
- smeej 4y ago
  I can't speak for everyone, since my memory is different even from the consensus memory of other people who remember his dying in prison, but I can tell you what I "remember," and why it may not be as absurd as you think. I misremember his dying in prison in 1993. In my false memory, he never became Prime Minister. His death inspired the movement that finally ended Apartheid, but he didn't do it himself. His death was interpreted as a kind of martyrdom for his cause, and as the deaths of martyrs often does, it evoked sympathy even in the hearts of people who disagreed with him, eventually leading to the end of Apartheid. I was only 7 in 1993, so I'm more than willing to accept that I'm just misremembering completely. My geopolitical awareness in the 2nd grade was pitiful by the most generous interpretation. Perhaps I'm conflating lots of different pieces of other stories and mistakenly associating them with his name. My memory is generally quite reliable, in my experience, but it's a long way from foolproof. I do remember being genuinely surprised when he actually died, long before I heard of the "Mandela Effect," because I thought I could remember the lesson in 2nd grade when we learned of his death in prison. I just wanted to mention it's a whole different set of memories, including his position and role in ending Apartheid, that I misremember, not just the circumstances of his death, and I would guess that's true of others as well. At least in my mismemory, he was still heroic, and his life (and death) inspired the change he's remembered for now. I would hope not to insult anyone just because my memories of my ignorance as a small child don't match what actually happened.
- throwaway12245 4y ago
  "becoming prime minister" He was President.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    no that's just the mandela effect again /s (but actually thanks for pointing that out, I corrected it)
- bena 4y ago
  I'm going to reply in support of your post. To add my voice to your chorus. I really fucking hate the "Mandela effect". It's a symptom of a much greater problem: people refusing to be wrong. Now when someone can be shown clear evidence that their memory is in error, they can claim that fucking reality itself has been changed. Apparently the only thing that is rock solid, 100% sure is our own memory. That is sacrosanct. Can't question it. Our own memory is a 100% accurate recording of everything we've ever experienced and cannot be influenced by anything ever. Except for all of the evidence that shows us the exact opposite. So how about we all be humble enough to say, "Ah, guess I was wrong" from time to time.

Can you elaborate on that?

Agreed, for others: the "Mandela effect" is a fake idea that there are things that we collectively remember wrong because of various pseudoscientific claims. It's like a conspiracy theory. It's called the "Mandela" effect based on the ridiculous claim that some people think that Nelson Mandela died in prison. That's absurd since it was after he was in prison that he did his most famous acts like becoming president and ending apartheid. The number of people that think he died in prison has to be vanishingly few. For someone that grew up in Apartheid South Africa I can't imagine how insulting this would be. People use it as an excuse when they remember anything wrong, just look at the subreddit and these ridiculous claims: https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/xg5a8o/meet_the_millers_or_were_the_millersmandela_effect/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/xg5a8o/meet_... JJ McCullough did a great video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKujYkEmwWM&themeRefresh=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKujYkEmwWM&themeRefresh=1

Moodles 4y ago
I think your reply is a little too strident. It’s not a “fake idea”. It’s just someone’s idea. I hadn’t heard of it but I googled it upon reading this thread and it seems to be the idea that people tend to collectively remember things inaccurately in the exact same way. That phenomenon alone seems pretty plausible and not that dumb or fake, right? But what isn’t plausible is the part you left out that’s talked about in the video? That some people explain the Mandela effect through pseudoscientific bullshit like alternative timelines merging. You also seem to conflate the ridiculousness of what some people collectively remember with the Mandela effect concept as a whole. It’s a bit like saying hypnosis as an idea is dumb because people do dumb things when hypnotised? I also don’t understand what is deeply offensive about people misremembering that Mandela died in prison? They’re not saying (or even remembering) that he was a bad person, probably the opposite, they’re just ignorant of history. But having said all that I am perplexed by the OP comment: “I can’t help but think the Mandela effect is an example”. An example of what? Cracks in spacetime? Because yeah that’s dumb, though probably a joke.
Tade0 4y ago
I grew up thinking he died in the late 90s, but that was just him retiring from politics.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
>For someone that grew up in Apartheid South Africa I can't imagine how insulting this would be. Maybe it's just too early, but why would it be offensive? Flabbergasting, sure, but offensive? I imagine if someone told me they thought the sky was red my jaw would drop, but I wouldn't be angry.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  Imagine a subset of people saying that there’s a phenomenon of people that believe MLK died in the 50’s of a heart attack. People that seriously believe Mandela died in prison isn’t offensive, but I doubt these exist in any significant number. People claiming that it’s even possible that you could believe that is offensive since it implies his most effective years and actions never happened.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    >People claiming that it’s even possible that you could believe that is offensive since it implies his most effective years and actions never happened. I think that is reading into it too much. There are lots of other less offensive implications. People are often unaware, uncritical, and misinformed. You can think this about a significant number of people while personally agreeing that Mendela had a large impact
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
Call it then Berenstain Effect then
- smeej 4y ago
  I had heard about this effect (whatever you want to call it) a few years ago, but I remember things as the evidence shows they happened (ironically, with the exception of Mandela specifically, but I remember it differently than the group of others), so I had generally chalked it up to "when faulty memory meets Reddit." Recently, though, I'm running into a weird one. In the last two months, I have encountered multiple incidents where people are either capitalizing "the Internet," or writing about why it's mainstream enough now that we don't need to capitalize "Internet." In my timeline, no one, and I mean NO ONE, had been capitalizing "internet" for at least fifteen years, and it was only really old people who did for five. It looks ridiculous to me even to see it. I can't account for this change by any normal means, and it's been really eerie!
  - jcims 4y ago
    That sounds more like Baader-Meinhoff. Which I just had to look up earlier this week for the first time in probably a decade. xD (I’m one of those old heads that still capitalize it btw)
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  The I am your father, Luke - effect.
smeej 4y ago
I can't speak for everyone, since my memory is different even from the consensus memory of other people who remember his dying in prison, but I can tell you what I "remember," and why it may not be as absurd as you think. I misremember his dying in prison in 1993. In my false memory, he never became Prime Minister. His death inspired the movement that finally ended Apartheid, but he didn't do it himself. His death was interpreted as a kind of martyrdom for his cause, and as the deaths of martyrs often does, it evoked sympathy even in the hearts of people who disagreed with him, eventually leading to the end of Apartheid. I was only 7 in 1993, so I'm more than willing to accept that I'm just misremembering completely. My geopolitical awareness in the 2nd grade was pitiful by the most generous interpretation. Perhaps I'm conflating lots of different pieces of other stories and mistakenly associating them with his name. My memory is generally quite reliable, in my experience, but it's a long way from foolproof. I do remember being genuinely surprised when he actually died, long before I heard of the "Mandela Effect," because I thought I could remember the lesson in 2nd grade when we learned of his death in prison. I just wanted to mention it's a whole different set of memories, including his position and role in ending Apartheid, that I misremember, not just the circumstances of his death, and I would guess that's true of others as well. At least in my mismemory, he was still heroic, and his life (and death) inspired the change he's remembered for now. I would hope not to insult anyone just because my memories of my ignorance as a small child don't match what actually happened.
throwaway12245 4y ago
"becoming prime minister" He was President.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  no that's just the mandela effect again /s (but actually thanks for pointing that out, I corrected it)
bena 4y ago
I'm going to reply in support of your post. To add my voice to your chorus. I really fucking hate the "Mandela effect". It's a symptom of a much greater problem: people refusing to be wrong. Now when someone can be shown clear evidence that their memory is in error, they can claim that fucking reality itself has been changed. Apparently the only thing that is rock solid, 100% sure is our own memory. That is sacrosanct. Can't question it. Our own memory is a 100% accurate recording of everything we've ever experienced and cannot be influenced by anything ever. Except for all of the evidence that shows us the exact opposite. So how about we all be humble enough to say, "Ah, guess I was wrong" from time to time.