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Yeah, that's why I'm not really crying for the Russian citizen right now. They had a full half year to risk jail by protesting the war, when it was "just" their

Yeah, that's why I'm not really crying for the Russian citizen right now. They had a full half year to risk jail by protesting the war, when it was "just" their country invading and murdering other people. They did it for a few weeks, then went back to their Stormbucks and McDelicious.

masijo 4y ago
Yeah, blaming the population, that's totally fair. What country are you from? Are you sure you're "free of guilt"? Why even stop at war? Do you have poverty in your country? If so, why are you happily posting in HN instead of fighting in the streets?
- luckylion 4y ago
  I'm from Germany. I'm pretty sure I am personally free of guilt today, but I'm convinced that most Germans during the Third Reich were not. They knew what happened and they didn't protest, they didn't act and enjoyed Hitler's social programs instead. I don't think there's much controversy around that. > Why even stop at war? Because it's an act. Poverty isn't.
- radu_floricica 4y ago
  Mostly because I don't believe government intervention can solve poverty. If anything, governments should get out of the way and let people make money, so protesting in the streets to "do something about poverty" is actually counterproductive. When it did any good, yes, I did my share of protesting. I even did some politics, I'm actually still a party member.
lamontcg 4y ago
Americans did the same thing with the Iraq war in 2003.
- rm_-rf_slash 4y ago
  Weak argument. Iraq War created massive discontent, debates were on the news every night for years. Meanwhile in Putin’s Russia you can get jailed for just calling it a war.
  - eternalban 4y ago
    > Weak argument. Iraq War created massive discontent, debates were on the news every night for years. All states, regardless of professed ideology, are only concerned with matters that affect their stability. Nobody in US power elite gave an F about people stretching for miles in DC and NYC. And many in the country were not even aware of the scale of the protests. Look at what any state suppresses without remorse and that is where their vulnerabilities are. In countries like Russia, China, and Iran, where the notion of a "leader" is significant in maintaining state cohesion, public displays of division undermine the psychological barriers that any person (anywhere) creates internally, in a very similar fashion to taboos. Public rebuke of leadership breaks taboos that maintain the 'magic circle' of power. It is all psychological, with local variations based on history, culture, system timeline, etc.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    I took part in the protests. The bulk of the people largely accepted the arguments. The bulk of congress voted to approve the war. We didn't have to throw lots of people in jail because the protests weren't disruptive enough to matter. Everyone went back to work the next day. At work the average sentiment was that of course Hussein had WMDs and mostly neoliberal handwringing over if it was tactically wise to actually invade or not with a lot of acceptance that it was inevitable.

masijo 4y ago

Yeah, blaming the population, that's totally fair. What country are you from? Are you sure you're "free of guilt"? Why even stop at war? Do you have poverty in your country? If so, why are you happily posting in HN instead of fighting in the streets?

luckylion 4y ago
I'm from Germany. I'm pretty sure I am personally free of guilt today, but I'm convinced that most Germans during the Third Reich were not. They knew what happened and they didn't protest, they didn't act and enjoyed Hitler's social programs instead. I don't think there's much controversy around that. > Why even stop at war? Because it's an act. Poverty isn't.
radu_floricica 4y ago
Mostly because I don't believe government intervention can solve poverty. If anything, governments should get out of the way and let people make money, so protesting in the streets to "do something about poverty" is actually counterproductive. When it did any good, yes, I did my share of protesting. I even did some politics, I'm actually still a party member.

lamontcg 4y ago

Americans did the same thing with the Iraq war in 2003.

rm_-rf_slash 4y ago
Weak argument. Iraq War created massive discontent, debates were on the news every night for years. Meanwhile in Putin’s Russia you can get jailed for just calling it a war.
- eternalban 4y ago
  > Weak argument. Iraq War created massive discontent, debates were on the news every night for years. All states, regardless of professed ideology, are only concerned with matters that affect their stability. Nobody in US power elite gave an F about people stretching for miles in DC and NYC. And many in the country were not even aware of the scale of the protests. Look at what any state suppresses without remorse and that is where their vulnerabilities are. In countries like Russia, China, and Iran, where the notion of a "leader" is significant in maintaining state cohesion, public displays of division undermine the psychological barriers that any person (anywhere) creates internally, in a very similar fashion to taboos. Public rebuke of leadership breaks taboos that maintain the 'magic circle' of power. It is all psychological, with local variations based on history, culture, system timeline, etc.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  I took part in the protests. The bulk of the people largely accepted the arguments. The bulk of congress voted to approve the war. We didn't have to throw lots of people in jail because the protests weren't disruptive enough to matter. Everyone went back to work the next day. At work the average sentiment was that of course Hussein had WMDs and mostly neoliberal handwringing over if it was tactically wise to actually invade or not with a lot of acceptance that it was inevitable.