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I don’t believe that’s what he said. He basically just pointed out that we should be careful not to speak of the Russian people as if they’re all innocent priso

I don’t believe that’s what he said. He basically just pointed out that we should be careful not to speak of the Russian people as if they’re all innocent prisoners of this evil regime. It’s not a very accurate representation either. I’m quoting him: “we are talking about the nation that invaded another country, targeting civilians, raping and murdering”. Did Putin himself do all of this? No, it was a significant part of the Russian people that did. An even larger portion of the Russian people supported these crimes. They (the people referred to here) are not innocent. Edit: Just as a disclaimer, I do question the 70% stat. I don’t know where that comes from or if such a number can even be reliably acquired given the censorship that’s going on in Russia.

jjulius 4y ago
>Did Putin himself do all of this? I mean, the whole reason they're there is because of him. >No, it was a significant part of the Russian people that did. Not really: >Prewar intelligence analyses said Russia had deployed around a total of 170,000 troops to the regions near Ukraine’s borders in the run-up to the invasion.[1] >The current population of the Russian Federation is 146,072,977 as of Wednesday, September 21, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data.[2] Less than 1% of Russian citizens were at Ukraine's border in February. Now we're hearing of a need for an additional 300,000 for a total of 470,000, or still less than 1% of Russian citizens. I find it incredibly difficult to call that a "significant part of the Russian people". >An even larger portion of the Russian people supported these crimes. Again, it is illegal to speak out against this invasion, and the nation has been under incredibly increasing levels of oppression for decades. While I don't doubt that a portion of Russian citizens supports it, I can't take those polls at face value. [1]https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-soldiers-ukraine-war-decree-/32006252.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-soldiers-ukraine-war-de... [2]https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/russia-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/russia-popula...
- mildmotive 4y ago
  You’re making some good points. But I think the main argument still stands, that we should be careful not to view the Russian people as being all victims. I concede to what you’re saying about the censorship. However, do note that this can act as an argument for his point as well.
  - jjulius 4y ago
    >But I think the main argument still stands, that we should be careful not to view the Russian people as being all victims. This is a fair point. I didn't intend to paint all Russian citizens so broadly, and I could've done more to drive that point home than the single sentence at the end of my last post. >However, do note that this can act as an argument for his point as well. Also true!
jwr 4y ago
> Just as a disclaimer, I do question the 70% stat. I don’t know where that comes from or if such a number can even be reliably acquired given the censorship that’s going on in Russia. This number comes up regularly and is an average, with the actual numbers varying from 50% to over 80% depending mostly on age. See for example The Economist: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2022/07/28/vladimir-putin-is-in-thrall-to-a-distinctive-brand-of-russian-fascism https://www.economist.com/briefing/2022/07/28/vladimir-putin... : "Among television viewers—mostly people over 60—more than 80% support the war. Among 18- to 24-year-olds, who get their news from the internet, it is less than half."

jjulius 4y ago

>Did Putin himself do all of this? I mean, the whole reason they're there is because of him. >No, it was a significant part of the Russian people that did. Not really: >Prewar intelligence analyses said Russia had deployed around a total of 170,000 troops to the regions near Ukraine’s borders in the run-up to the invasion.[1] >The current population of the Russian Federation is 146,072,977 as of Wednesday, September 21, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data.[2] Less than 1% of Russian citizens were at Ukraine's border in February. Now we're hearing of a need for an additional 300,000 for a total of 470,000, or still less than 1% of Russian citizens. I find it incredibly difficult to call that a "significant part of the Russian people". >An even larger portion of the Russian people supported these crimes. Again, it is illegal to speak out against this invasion, and the nation has been under incredibly increasing levels of oppression for decades. While I don't doubt that a portion of Russian citizens supports it, I can't take those polls at face value. [1]https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-soldiers-ukraine-war-decree-/32006252.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-soldiers-ukraine-war-de... [2]https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/russia-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/russia-popula...

mildmotive 4y ago
You’re making some good points. But I think the main argument still stands, that we should be careful not to view the Russian people as being all victims. I concede to what you’re saying about the censorship. However, do note that this can act as an argument for his point as well.
- jjulius 4y ago
  >But I think the main argument still stands, that we should be careful not to view the Russian people as being all victims. This is a fair point. I didn't intend to paint all Russian citizens so broadly, and I could've done more to drive that point home than the single sentence at the end of my last post. >However, do note that this can act as an argument for his point as well. Also true!

jwr 4y ago

> Just as a disclaimer, I do question the 70% stat. I don’t know where that comes from or if such a number can even be reliably acquired given the censorship that’s going on in Russia. This number comes up regularly and is an average, with the actual numbers varying from 50% to over 80% depending mostly on age. See for example The Economist: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2022/07/28/vladimir-putin-is-in-thrall-to-a-distinctive-brand-of-russian-fascism https://www.economist.com/briefing/2022/07/28/vladimir-putin... : "Among television viewers—mostly people over 60—more than 80% support the war. Among 18- to 24-year-olds, who get their news from the internet, it is less than half."