32 ms·

I can’t help but wonder if there would be less war if supporters had to have skin in the game. Like how many supporters of military action are fine with sendin

by awb 4y ago

I can’t help but wonder if there would be less war if supporters had to have skin in the game. Like how many supporters of military action are fine with sending other people to war, but would change their mind if it meant them having to go.

krossitalk 4y ago
I think System of a Down asked this same question: "Why don't presidents fight the war?"
- eternalban 4y ago
  "Why don't presidents fight the war?" CCR answered this question back in the 1969: https://genius.com/Creedence-clearwater-revival-fortunate-son-lyrics https://genius.com/Creedence-clearwater-revival-fortunate-so...
- williamstein 4y ago
  Also, Black Sabbath: "Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor, yeah"
- nine_zeros 4y ago
  > I think System of a Down asked this same question: "Why don't presidents fight the war?" This war is already lost by Russia precisely because the generals and leaders are too far from the frontline. They are using people as pawns. The only reason this war appears so dangerous is because of nukes. This will be the first time in history that a non-American nuclear power is losing a war.
  - loeg 4y ago
    > This war is already lost by Russia precisely because the generals and leaders are too far from the frontline. They are using people as pawns. I thought Russia was losing generals left and right in Ukraine?[1] Certainly, Putin and his sycophants are not on the front lines. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_kille...
  - daveevad 4y ago
    > This will be the first time in history that a non-American nuclear power is losing a war. That is hard to believe but I am unable to contradict it.
    - comprambler 4y ago
      They "lost" Afghanistan as well.
    - philistine 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971
  - logical_ferry 4y ago
    > This will be the first time in history that a non-American nuclear power is losing a war. Soviet invasion of Afganistan?
  - hef19898 4y ago
    The French in Vietnam and the Algerian civil war lost as well. As did both, the UK and France along side Israel, in the Suez crisis (granted, Israel did pretty well on their part).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- bambax 4y ago
  "Se peut-il rien de plus plaisant qu’un homme ait droit de me tuer parce qu'il demeure au-delà de l'eau et que son prince a querelle contre le mien, quoique je n'en aie aucune avec lui?" "Can you think of anything funnier than a man having the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of the river and his king quarrels with mine, although I don't with him?" Blaise Pascal, Pensées, circa 1660.
- ThePadawan 4y ago
  (Please allow this light-hearted deviation which might be considered in poor taste) Or we could build giant dueling death robots who decide wars 1-on-1 instead of pointlessly wasting human lives like in classic Sci-Fi schlock Robot Jox [0]: > Fifty years after a nuclear holocaust, mankind is decimated and the surviving nations—the American western-influenced Market and the Soviet-Russian-influenced Confederation—have agreed to outlaw traditional open war. In their place, disputes are settled with gladiator-style matches between giant robots operated by pilots called "robot jox" [...] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Jox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Jox
  - daveevad 4y ago
    Surely if we made it that far, it wouldn't even be necessary.
    - ThePadawan 4y ago
      I think the point of "humanity will always have a desire and/or find reasons to want to go to war with itself, and the only way we can at least slightly stop that is because it gets too expensive" is quite poignant.
seydor 4y ago
The worst wars ever were when there was conscription in almost every country
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Or even more cynically, if you are old and rich and run a country and theres lots of young, poor men wondering why they aren't rich then maybe sending them off to die in a pointless war has some upside for the ones who can escape service via their connections.
hprotagonist 4y ago
"I ain't no fortunate one, no"
radu_floricica 4y ago
Yeah, that's why I'm not really crying for the Russian citizen right now. They had a full half year to risk jail by protesting the war, when it was "just" their country invading and murdering other people. They did it for a few weeks, then went back to their Stormbucks and McDelicious.
- masijo 4y ago
  Yeah, blaming the population, that's totally fair. What country are you from? Are you sure you're "free of guilt"? Why even stop at war? Do you have poverty in your country? If so, why are you happily posting in HN instead of fighting in the streets?
  - luckylion 4y ago
    I'm from Germany. I'm pretty sure I am personally free of guilt today, but I'm convinced that most Germans during the Third Reich were not. They knew what happened and they didn't protest, they didn't act and enjoyed Hitler's social programs instead. I don't think there's much controversy around that. > Why even stop at war? Because it's an act. Poverty isn't.
  - radu_floricica 4y ago
    Mostly because I don't believe government intervention can solve poverty. If anything, governments should get out of the way and let people make money, so protesting in the streets to "do something about poverty" is actually counterproductive. When it did any good, yes, I did my share of protesting. I even did some politics, I'm actually still a party member.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Americans did the same thing with the Iraq war in 2003.
  - rm_-rf_slash 4y ago
    Weak argument. Iraq War created massive discontent, debates were on the news every night for years. Meanwhile in Putin’s Russia you can get jailed for just calling it a war.
rasz 4y ago
There was a Youtuber in ~March asking young russians in front of university (or maybe it was red square?) about support for war and russian soldiers, followed by whipping out a notebook and asking for the same in writing as he was making list of patriots. Every single person swiftly ran away. Sadly I cant find the link now.

by awb 4y ago

krossitalk 4y ago

I think System of a Down asked this same question: "Why don't presidents fight the war?"

eternalban 4y ago
"Why don't presidents fight the war?" CCR answered this question back in the 1969: https://genius.com/Creedence-clearwater-revival-fortunate-son-lyrics https://genius.com/Creedence-clearwater-revival-fortunate-so...
williamstein 4y ago
Also, Black Sabbath: "Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor, yeah"
nine_zeros 4y ago
> I think System of a Down asked this same question: "Why don't presidents fight the war?" This war is already lost by Russia precisely because the generals and leaders are too far from the frontline. They are using people as pawns. The only reason this war appears so dangerous is because of nukes. This will be the first time in history that a non-American nuclear power is losing a war.
- loeg 4y ago
  > This war is already lost by Russia precisely because the generals and leaders are too far from the frontline. They are using people as pawns. I thought Russia was losing generals left and right in Ukraine?[1] Certainly, Putin and his sycophants are not on the front lines. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_kille...
- daveevad 4y ago
  > This will be the first time in history that a non-American nuclear power is losing a war. That is hard to believe but I am unable to contradict it.
  - comprambler 4y ago
    They "lost" Afghanistan as well.
  - philistine 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971
- logical_ferry 4y ago
  > This will be the first time in history that a non-American nuclear power is losing a war. Soviet invasion of Afganistan?
- hef19898 4y ago
  The French in Vietnam and the Algerian civil war lost as well. As did both, the UK and France along side Israel, in the Suez crisis (granted, Israel did pretty well on their part).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
bambax 4y ago
"Se peut-il rien de plus plaisant qu’un homme ait droit de me tuer parce qu'il demeure au-delà de l'eau et que son prince a querelle contre le mien, quoique je n'en aie aucune avec lui?" "Can you think of anything funnier than a man having the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of the river and his king quarrels with mine, although I don't with him?" Blaise Pascal, Pensées, circa 1660.
ThePadawan 4y ago
(Please allow this light-hearted deviation which might be considered in poor taste) Or we could build giant dueling death robots who decide wars 1-on-1 instead of pointlessly wasting human lives like in classic Sci-Fi schlock Robot Jox [0]: > Fifty years after a nuclear holocaust, mankind is decimated and the surviving nations—the American western-influenced Market and the Soviet-Russian-influenced Confederation—have agreed to outlaw traditional open war. In their place, disputes are settled with gladiator-style matches between giant robots operated by pilots called "robot jox" [...] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Jox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Jox
- daveevad 4y ago
  Surely if we made it that far, it wouldn't even be necessary.
  - ThePadawan 4y ago
    I think the point of "humanity will always have a desire and/or find reasons to want to go to war with itself, and the only way we can at least slightly stop that is because it gets too expensive" is quite poignant.

seydor 4y ago

The worst wars ever were when there was conscription in almost every country

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

Or even more cynically, if you are old and rich and run a country and theres lots of young, poor men wondering why they aren't rich then maybe sending them off to die in a pointless war has some upside for the ones who can escape service via their connections.

hprotagonist 4y ago

"I ain't no fortunate one, no"

radu_floricica 4y ago

Yeah, that's why I'm not really crying for the Russian citizen right now. They had a full half year to risk jail by protesting the war, when it was "just" their country invading and murdering other people. They did it for a few weeks, then went back to their Stormbucks and McDelicious.

masijo 4y ago
Yeah, blaming the population, that's totally fair. What country are you from? Are you sure you're "free of guilt"? Why even stop at war? Do you have poverty in your country? If so, why are you happily posting in HN instead of fighting in the streets?
- luckylion 4y ago
  I'm from Germany. I'm pretty sure I am personally free of guilt today, but I'm convinced that most Germans during the Third Reich were not. They knew what happened and they didn't protest, they didn't act and enjoyed Hitler's social programs instead. I don't think there's much controversy around that. > Why even stop at war? Because it's an act. Poverty isn't.
- radu_floricica 4y ago
  Mostly because I don't believe government intervention can solve poverty. If anything, governments should get out of the way and let people make money, so protesting in the streets to "do something about poverty" is actually counterproductive. When it did any good, yes, I did my share of protesting. I even did some politics, I'm actually still a party member.
lamontcg 4y ago
Americans did the same thing with the Iraq war in 2003.
- rm_-rf_slash 4y ago
  Weak argument. Iraq War created massive discontent, debates were on the news every night for years. Meanwhile in Putin’s Russia you can get jailed for just calling it a war.

rasz 4y ago

There was a Youtuber in ~March asking young russians in front of university (or maybe it was red square?) about support for war and russian soldiers, followed by whipping out a notebook and asking for the same in writing as he was making list of patriots. Every single person swiftly ran away. Sadly I cant find the link now.