7 ms·
> shanghaied Nit: We can probably retire this term now.
by khazhoux 4y ago
> shanghaied
Nit: We can probably retire this term now.
- hef19898 4y agoI know, the actual naval practice doesn't exist anymore (mostly that is...), it still describes the practice very well, doesn't it?
- dredmorbius 4y agoImpressed?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y agoWhy do you think it should be retired?
- riffic 4y agoit's kind of obvious.
- throwawayx134ax 4y agoOnly to those who are looking for excuses to take offense. That's sort of like saying a "pyrrhic victory" is offensive to the greeks.
- khazhoux 4y agoAssociating an entire city with a specific crime (from nearly 200 years ago) just seems unnecessary.
- SauciestGNU 4y agoPlus it was largely Europeans kidnapping other Europeans for voyages to the East. The people of Shanghai were not involved.
- Markoff 4y agobecause it has nothing to do with present day China for at least last few decades, you are MUCH more likely to get drugged and robbed in Manila for instance I had to look it up because this is first time I heard this nonsense term, so it's not like it's commonly used
- rendall 4y agoWhy would we do that?
- khazhoux 4y agoSeems to me an entire city doesn't need to be associated with the practice of kidnapping.
- ALittleLight 4y agoYou are free to use whichever terms you prefer.
- khazhoux 4y agoOf course I am. My point is that others should stop using the name of a Chinese city as shorthand for kidnapping and forced servitude.
- ALittleLight 4y agoOdd that you recognize a freedom for yourself that you don't extend to others.
- khazhoux 4y agoEveryone is of course free to use antiquated, offensive terms.
- booleandilemma 4y agoI can't be the only one getting tired of the language policing.
- zen_1 4y agoAnd everyone* is likewise free to complain about inconsequential choices of verbiage while men are being drafted against their will and forced to invade their neighbours. *everyone but those poor souls being drafted or invaded...
- jazzyjackson 4y agoit's descriptive, carries a lot of connotation, none of which actually involves the city or the people of shanghai, I don't get why anyone has beef with it.
- rPlayer6554 4y agoI have no idea what that term means.
- a_t48 4y agoI prefer press-ganging.
- morelisp 4y agoIt's not at all descriptive, it's purely allusive. You could learn everything there is to learn about the actual city and not have a clue what it meant.
- yongjik 4y ago> You could learn everything there is to learn about the actual city and not have a clue what it meant. I don't think that's what "descriptive" means. The term is as descriptive as much as "laconic" or "china" or "japan" (meaning varnish) - in each case, you can't independently derive the word's meaning from the original place name.
- colinmhayes 4y agoIt's literally the opposite of descriptive. Obviously it's not a big deal, but it's an easy thing to fix.
- SauciestGNU 4y agoMaybe "kidnapped into servitude/slavery" is more accurate?
- morelisp 4y ago
- layer8 4y agoLike “debunking”? https://blogs.lib.unc.edu/ncm/2022/01/14/zimmer/ https://blogs.lib.unc.edu/ncm/2022/01/14/zimmer/
- khazhoux 4y agoMy point wasn't etymological. The expression "to shanghai someone" doesn't just derive from the city name -- it is the city name. And the term originated at a time when respect by the West for Chinese people was not at a historical high point.
- neilv 4y agoAgreed. I've had some nice colleagues in Shanghai, and I suspect they'd prefer that the name of their home not be used to refer to an awful practice. FWIW, according to https://wordhistories.net/2019/07/16/shanghai-kidnap/ https://wordhistories.net/2019/07/16/shanghai-kidnap/ , in 1857, in San Francisco, they considered the term vulgar slang: > It was suspected that he had been drugged and carried off, or, as it is vulgarly called, “Shanghaied,” on the ship Oliver Jordan, which sailed yesterday.
- laserdancepony 4y agoMaybe in 1857, "vulgar" had a different meaning. Compared to "vulgar Latin", describing a latin 'dialect' spoken by the masses (in contrast to Cicero's Latin) even after dissolution of the roman empire, reaching its pinnacle in the arguable descendent 'roman' languages (French etc.).
- neilv 4y agoGood point.
- laserdancepony 4y agoYour language policing demands are alien to me. I am pretty much aware of the history of the term but disagree. I remember the rampant public discussion in Germany about properly naming the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, denouncing prior examples to name new diseases by their (perceived) country of origin (compared to Syphilis, which was named by the Germans as "French disease", and by the French as "Neapolitan disease" etc.). Telling people how to talk is just wrong in my opinion.
- piva00 4y ago> Telling people how to talk is just wrong in my opinion. I don't think it's necessarily wrong, my issue with it is that the policing comes usually with snark. As if only total disgust to a term and a middling aggressive tone will help. I only got to learn how some terms can be harmful through empathy, and try to apply that when trying to make a point about why I think using term such-and-such wrong. Even then I still reject when someone approaches someone's perceived non-politically correct speech with snark, we should save that for egregious instances of it, not for small slights...
- khazhoux 4y agoAt least in the US, the COVID naming thing was most definitely a political issue. Trump called it the "CHINA-virus" not as a neutral country-of-origin differentiator, but specifically to lay blame on China and to deflect responsibility inside the US for dealing with the disease. I think it was more than appropriate to push back on that term, which was promoted only to redirect outrage away from the Administration. > Telling people how to talk is just wrong in my opinion Everyone has their line, though. Not knowing anything about you, I will wager there is some language you were maybe OK with 20 years ago, which you're not cool with today?