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I don't play chess, and this story doesn't particularly interest me, but since it keeps coming up and I've now read several articles on it... It seems to me th

I don't play chess, and this story doesn't particularly interest me, but since it keeps coming up and I've now read several articles on it... It seems to me that the entire chess community is absolutely ruining this guy's life on an accusation without any proof. This chess champ had clout to burry this guy with a tweet. Carlsen won't play in future tournaments where this guy is also there and won't do a rematch. It seems like he is just sulking. From an outsider of the game, without any proof and without a rematch, everyone is destroying Niemann unjustly. Comedians ripping into him. This scandal has removed any interest I may have had in competitive chess not because of the possible cheating, but how the chess world handled it.

googlryas 4y ago
He's already admitted to cheating in online tournaments. Someone saying "Yeah I cheat in chess online but no way I would ever cheat in chess in real life" doesn't hold much water in my book. It's also weird that if someone is good enough to beat one of the best chess players in the world, that they would also resort to cheating against much weaker opponents.
- pizza234 4y ago
  > He's already admitted to cheating in online tournaments. He did when he was 12 and 16. It's impossible to assess whether that holds value (particularly difficult because Niemann is 19). I wouldn't be surprised if other professional chess players cheated as young teenagers.
  - Grim-444 4y ago
    To be fair, that's only according to what he himself has admitted, which doesn't rule out more cheating than that.
    - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
      And chess.com, the site that banned him from playing for cheating has suggested that he’s not telling the whole truth.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        Stop spamming this, chess.com doesn't have the best reputation either.
- georgyo 4y ago
  In my teens I cheated in counter strike, maybe a total of 20 games. As an adult, I still play FPS games but have no interest in cheating. Also cheating in online chess is a very low barrier if entry. Anyone can do it. When I did cheat in counter strike, it was as simple as wanting to see how it worked. Downloading some questionable binaries and running them. A simile might be downloading an illegal copy of windows and stealing a car. Both are technically stealing, but stealing windows is not a predictor that you are going to steal a car. Cheating in person so discreetly that no one is even sure that it happened is the opposite. It would have required custom hardware, discreet placement, and a lot of practice reading the data. Nothing suggests that he was a hardware engineer if any sort. How many accomplices did he have? The more people, the harder to keep a secret. Similarly, his offers to rematch and play even naked are really doubling down. Magnus seems scared to entertain these matches.
  - awb 4y ago
    > his offers to rematch and play even naked are really doubling down. Magnus seems scared to entertain these matches. It might make sense to have a theory of how he was cheating before accepting a rematch. Magnus also has nothing to gain. If Magnus loses he looks like a jerk for accusing him of cheating, or an idiot for not being able to setup conditions that prevent him from cheating. If Magnus wins, he proves nothing since he’s expected to win. All it proves is that the first game was a fluke and they’re ratings disparities are accurate.
    - georgyo 4y ago
      Since Magnus is a chess grandmaster, are you saying that he applied his skills in real life? Apparently, even if this person was or was not cheating, refusing a rematch and calling him a cheater was the best possible move.
  - hutrdvnj 4y ago
    But it seems as Hans wasn't entirely honest about his cheating and therefore chess dot com banned him a week ago. And there's the incredible sharp increase of rating, basically from 2400 IM level in 2021 to Super GM 2700 level (live ratings) within 2 years. Yes, that is legitimately possible, other players had similar incredible gains, so it's not completely unheard of, but he is either one of the greatest improvers of all-time or something is wrong.
- roflyear 4y ago
  - googlryas 4y ago
    I'm fairly confident he is a cheater and the "me too" movement doesn't upset me, in fact it was a long time coming. How exactly are you drawing parallels between people's views on whether someone is cheating at chess, and whether people are committing sexual assaults against women?
    - roflyear 4y ago
      Why do I need to show you how I'm drawing parallels between anything? You're not!
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    That's a very bold and expansive statement covering millions of people. Do you have any evidence that the two groups are one in the same? Or are you putting everyone you don't like into a single bucket of assumed shared attributes?
    - roflyear 4y ago
      I don't need evidence, apparently! Haven't you been following?
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  Remember, he only ever cheated the two times that it is public knowledge that he caught. Never before, never after, and never in the 4 years between those two events. If that doesn’t sound like the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then I ain’t no chess grand master!
- alpaca128 4y ago
  Show me one person who didn't do something stupid in the 12-16 age range. Chess.com are the only ones claiming to have evidence that he cheated more than he admitted, but they didn't show it and they have a partnership with Carlsen. This is a situation where both parties have reasons to lie and there's no solid evidence for anything. There's no reason to do anything or blame anyone until any new information comes up.
rgoulter 4y ago
Carlsen's acting with strong compulsion that Niemann is a cheater. Withdrawing from a round-robin and losing a game on purpose are quite strong indications of this. It's obviously a bad situation for the chess world. ... But, I think if you strongly believe cheating is going on without being addressed, protest seems an entirely understandable.
- roflyear 4y ago
  That still does not mean what he's doing is the right thing to do.
  - return_to_monke 4y ago
    Yes! This isn't the middle ages anymore. To accuse someone, you'd imagine that they would actually lie up evidence that he is cheating. This seems like a weird witch hunt.
    - LodeOfCode 4y ago
      Nit: the literal witch hunts were mostly after the end of the middle ages
      - return_to_monke 4y ago
        True! Didn't consider that. New age doesn't sound that cool tho.

googlryas 4y ago

He's already admitted to cheating in online tournaments. Someone saying "Yeah I cheat in chess online but no way I would ever cheat in chess in real life" doesn't hold much water in my book. It's also weird that if someone is good enough to beat one of the best chess players in the world, that they would also resort to cheating against much weaker opponents.

pizza234 4y ago
> He's already admitted to cheating in online tournaments. He did when he was 12 and 16. It's impossible to assess whether that holds value (particularly difficult because Niemann is 19). I wouldn't be surprised if other professional chess players cheated as young teenagers.
- Grim-444 4y ago
  To be fair, that's only according to what he himself has admitted, which doesn't rule out more cheating than that.
  - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
    And chess.com, the site that banned him from playing for cheating has suggested that he’s not telling the whole truth.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      Stop spamming this, chess.com doesn't have the best reputation either.
georgyo 4y ago
In my teens I cheated in counter strike, maybe a total of 20 games. As an adult, I still play FPS games but have no interest in cheating. Also cheating in online chess is a very low barrier if entry. Anyone can do it. When I did cheat in counter strike, it was as simple as wanting to see how it worked. Downloading some questionable binaries and running them. A simile might be downloading an illegal copy of windows and stealing a car. Both are technically stealing, but stealing windows is not a predictor that you are going to steal a car. Cheating in person so discreetly that no one is even sure that it happened is the opposite. It would have required custom hardware, discreet placement, and a lot of practice reading the data. Nothing suggests that he was a hardware engineer if any sort. How many accomplices did he have? The more people, the harder to keep a secret. Similarly, his offers to rematch and play even naked are really doubling down. Magnus seems scared to entertain these matches.
- awb 4y ago
  > his offers to rematch and play even naked are really doubling down. Magnus seems scared to entertain these matches. It might make sense to have a theory of how he was cheating before accepting a rematch. Magnus also has nothing to gain. If Magnus loses he looks like a jerk for accusing him of cheating, or an idiot for not being able to setup conditions that prevent him from cheating. If Magnus wins, he proves nothing since he’s expected to win. All it proves is that the first game was a fluke and they’re ratings disparities are accurate.
  - georgyo 4y ago
    Since Magnus is a chess grandmaster, are you saying that he applied his skills in real life? Apparently, even if this person was or was not cheating, refusing a rematch and calling him a cheater was the best possible move.
- hutrdvnj 4y ago
  But it seems as Hans wasn't entirely honest about his cheating and therefore chess dot com banned him a week ago. And there's the incredible sharp increase of rating, basically from 2400 IM level in 2021 to Super GM 2700 level (live ratings) within 2 years. Yes, that is legitimately possible, other players had similar incredible gains, so it's not completely unheard of, but he is either one of the greatest improvers of all-time or something is wrong.
roflyear 4y ago
- googlryas 4y ago
  I'm fairly confident he is a cheater and the "me too" movement doesn't upset me, in fact it was a long time coming. How exactly are you drawing parallels between people's views on whether someone is cheating at chess, and whether people are committing sexual assaults against women?
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Why do I need to show you how I'm drawing parallels between anything? You're not!
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  That's a very bold and expansive statement covering millions of people. Do you have any evidence that the two groups are one in the same? Or are you putting everyone you don't like into a single bucket of assumed shared attributes?
  - roflyear 4y ago
    I don't need evidence, apparently! Haven't you been following?
isitmadeofglass 4y ago
Remember, he only ever cheated the two times that it is public knowledge that he caught. Never before, never after, and never in the 4 years between those two events. If that doesn’t sound like the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then I ain’t no chess grand master!
alpaca128 4y ago
Show me one person who didn't do something stupid in the 12-16 age range. Chess.com are the only ones claiming to have evidence that he cheated more than he admitted, but they didn't show it and they have a partnership with Carlsen. This is a situation where both parties have reasons to lie and there's no solid evidence for anything. There's no reason to do anything or blame anyone until any new information comes up.

rgoulter 4y ago

Carlsen's acting with strong compulsion that Niemann is a cheater. Withdrawing from a round-robin and losing a game on purpose are quite strong indications of this. It's obviously a bad situation for the chess world. ... But, I think if you strongly believe cheating is going on without being addressed, protest seems an entirely understandable.

roflyear 4y ago
That still does not mean what he's doing is the right thing to do.
- return_to_monke 4y ago
  Yes! This isn't the middle ages anymore. To accuse someone, you'd imagine that they would actually lie up evidence that he is cheating. This seems like a weird witch hunt.
  - LodeOfCode 4y ago
    Nit: the literal witch hunts were mostly after the end of the middle ages
    - return_to_monke 4y ago
      True! Didn't consider that. New age doesn't sound that cool tho.