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is there a decentralized app you like that isn't a defi exchange or play2earn "game" ? just curious because I haven't seen a practical use for the EVM, it just

is there a decentralized app you like that isn't a defi exchange or play2earn "game" ? just curious because I haven't seen a practical use for the EVM, it just seems like the slowest, most expensive VM ever conceived.

kranke155 4y ago
Yes. NFTs have actually solved a real problem in the art world. I've said it many times before here so you can browse through my comment history to see why. Spoilers: - saying "but there is fraud" is not an argument agaisnt NFTs, because actually an automated solution for NFT fraud is conceivable. And the fact that there is fraud does not take away from the thousands of artists using it legitimately. Plus, authenticating you are buying from a real artist in the NFT space is actually not that hard.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  > NFTs have actually solved a real problem in the art world. I've said it many times before. Saying something wrong many times doesn't make it right.
  - kranke155 4y ago
    You can ignore the empirical evidence. NFTs work.
    - vkou 4y ago
      Work to do what? Prove ownership? They don't. Attribute IP rights? They don't. Persist the art in an immutable state? They don't. Bundle any other perks with the art? They don't. Provide a channel for artists to 'sell' their art? Okay, I guess they do, but so do a million other services, ranging from websites to the coffee shop two blocks down from my apartment. They are signed URLs that you can trade around on an exchange. This solves no problem that anyone making art has ever had.
      - kranke155 4y ago
        > Provide a channel for artists to 'sell' their art? Okay, I guess they do, but so do a million other services… Yeah NFTs did exactly this and they’re doing a decent job. If you’re a digital artist it was really really hard to get people to buy your art without a gatekeeper/art gallery certifying it. Now it’s easy. So yes they work for specifically that purpose. If you think coffee shops are a substitute for digital art to be sold in a permissionless global open market I don’t know what to tell you.
edgyquant 4y ago
I’m really tired of people assuming decentralized = eth derivative. The practical use cases of federated and decentralized apps have been shown (no one source of truth, tampering or failure) but practical apps aren’t going to use a cryptocurrency why the hell would they. At scale we’ve been building completely decentralized applications for a decade and a half. They’re just internal to some organization not public. Taking this and placing the database in the users hands is an interesting way to go but not exactly an order of magnitude more complex at that point. But this doesn’t require some dumbass blockchain currency and ethereum is super forced.
- michaelchisari 4y ago
  | They’re just internal to some organization not public. That's because technological decentralization is much easier with political centralization. But technological and political decentralization together is incredibly difficult. In my experience, federated systems are more practical than decentralized systems and provide 98% of the benefits. I agree that cryptocurrency is not necessary (or ideal) for either.

kranke155 4y ago

Yes. NFTs have actually solved a real problem in the art world. I've said it many times before here so you can browse through my comment history to see why. Spoilers: - saying "but there is fraud" is not an argument agaisnt NFTs, because actually an automated solution for NFT fraud is conceivable. And the fact that there is fraud does not take away from the thousands of artists using it legitimately. Plus, authenticating you are buying from a real artist in the NFT space is actually not that hard.

iLoveOncall 4y ago
> NFTs have actually solved a real problem in the art world. I've said it many times before. Saying something wrong many times doesn't make it right.
- kranke155 4y ago
  You can ignore the empirical evidence. NFTs work.
  - vkou 4y ago
    Work to do what? Prove ownership? They don't. Attribute IP rights? They don't. Persist the art in an immutable state? They don't. Bundle any other perks with the art? They don't. Provide a channel for artists to 'sell' their art? Okay, I guess they do, but so do a million other services, ranging from websites to the coffee shop two blocks down from my apartment. They are signed URLs that you can trade around on an exchange. This solves no problem that anyone making art has ever had.
    - kranke155 4y ago
      > Provide a channel for artists to 'sell' their art? Okay, I guess they do, but so do a million other services… Yeah NFTs did exactly this and they’re doing a decent job. If you’re a digital artist it was really really hard to get people to buy your art without a gatekeeper/art gallery certifying it. Now it’s easy. So yes they work for specifically that purpose. If you think coffee shops are a substitute for digital art to be sold in a permissionless global open market I don’t know what to tell you.

edgyquant 4y ago

I’m really tired of people assuming decentralized = eth derivative. The practical use cases of federated and decentralized apps have been shown (no one source of truth, tampering or failure) but practical apps aren’t going to use a cryptocurrency why the hell would they. At scale we’ve been building completely decentralized applications for a decade and a half. They’re just internal to some organization not public. Taking this and placing the database in the users hands is an interesting way to go but not exactly an order of magnitude more complex at that point. But this doesn’t require some dumbass blockchain currency and ethereum is super forced.

michaelchisari 4y ago
| They’re just internal to some organization not public. That's because technological decentralization is much easier with political centralization. But technological and political decentralization together is incredibly difficult. In my experience, federated systems are more practical than decentralized systems and provide 98% of the benefits. I agree that cryptocurrency is not necessary (or ideal) for either.