4 ms·

Also, hoping that everyone who did get out (who presumably isn't that keen on murdering Ukrainians) is busy sending help to Ukraine and dedicated a significant

by jwr 4y ago

Also, hoping that everyone who did get out (who presumably isn't that keen on murdering Ukrainians) is busy sending help to Ukraine and dedicated a significant percentage of their salary to that effect.

dmitrygr 4y ago
A little presumptuous of you to tell people who just barely escaped being thrown into a meat grinder how to spend what little money they might have.
- throwaway777845 4y ago
  Thinking, that people living in russia should bear responsibility for what russia does, is not really that presumptuous, given what russia is doing. Russia 101: Russia forcibly mobilizes men from occupied teritotries, most of them will die off in the spec operation, then (after war) loyal russians will be imported to that region.
  - dmitrygr 4y ago
    Are you willing to take in 100M russians? Got a big back yard, with schools and hospitals to take care of them? If not, where are they to go exactly? What is it you want them to do? They live in a de-facto dictatorship. Most are normal people trying to just live a life. They have as much effect on Putin as you do (possibly less).
    - luckylion 4y ago
      Does that not absolve everyone of everything but Putin himself? His generals were "just following orders", the politicians "couldn't do anything alone", the tank-engineers were "just trying to live a life", the soldiers invading Ukraine "really have no influence", so they choose to murder Ukrainians instead of turning their guns on those they allegedly have no influence over.
      - dmitrygr 4y ago
        $higher_power willing you never end up with a choice of either obeying orders to go kill someone or having your family executed in front of you. Bottom level grunts only have this choice.
  - lawn 4y ago
    Some Russians are oppressed and really poor. Those who should take responsibility are the rich who also don't have to worry about being sent to war. The question is, how do we make them take responsibility?
    - vkou 4y ago
      > The question is, how do we make them take responsibility? Easy. Sanctions, travel bans, financial restrictions, and stop buying natgas.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > people living in russia should bear responsibility for what russia does Ramzan Kadirov is a regional warlord in russia, known foe decades for murder and torture. Before the war he had instagram and other social media accounts. Should the Western leaders ever take responsebility for working with blooduly dictators when it suits? As opposed to some poor John Doe in the middle of Siberia, who protested mutiple times and got nothing but a broken skull to show for it https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/09/the-observer-view-on-anti-kremlin-protests-in-siberia https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/09/the-ob...
hef19898 4y ago
Ukraine deserves all the support it can get. From NATO and othet allied / supporting nations. Private donations a drop in the bucket. Reminder: If Afghan or other refugees from the various wars and occupations in that region of the world send money to finance resistence, we in the West have a tendency to call it funding of terrorism.
- luckylion 4y ago
  Pretty much only if they support the Taliban or ISIS though, who they're allegedly fleeing from. If someone fled from Russia because they didn't want to fight in Ukraine, but then sent money to Russia "for the war efforts", would you consider that reasonable?
khazhoux 4y ago
> dedicated a significant percentage of their salary to that effect Russian citizens don't bear the financial responsibility (or the moral blame) for what Putin in doing.
- Gravityloss 4y ago
  How do you think democracy came to be in the countries where it exists?
  - khazhoux 4y ago
    Maybe I was unclear. The comment above mine said Russian citizens should donate a significant portion of their earnings to Ukraine. That's the part I objected to.
jjulius 4y ago
With all due respect, I believe that you are demonstrating a strong, fundamental misunderstanding of what life is like for a refugee, which results in your comment coming off as tone deaf.
- jwr 4y ago
  "Refugee" is a broad category. I know a number of Russians who left their country and live very well in Western cities, with well-paying IT jobs. Some of them regularly write about the subtler aspects of newly announced Apple hardware. People like you and me. So — tone deaf, perhaps, but only if you have a stereotypical image of a "refugee" in your mind.
  - jjulius 4y ago
    >"Refugee" is a broad category. It sure is! And yet, emphasis mine: >... everyone who did get out...

by jwr 4y ago

dmitrygr 4y ago

A little presumptuous of you to tell people who just barely escaped being thrown into a meat grinder how to spend what little money they might have.

throwaway777845 4y ago
Thinking, that people living in russia should bear responsibility for what russia does, is not really that presumptuous, given what russia is doing. Russia 101: Russia forcibly mobilizes men from occupied teritotries, most of them will die off in the spec operation, then (after war) loyal russians will be imported to that region.
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  Are you willing to take in 100M russians? Got a big back yard, with schools and hospitals to take care of them? If not, where are they to go exactly? What is it you want them to do? They live in a de-facto dictatorship. Most are normal people trying to just live a life. They have as much effect on Putin as you do (possibly less).
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Does that not absolve everyone of everything but Putin himself? His generals were "just following orders", the politicians "couldn't do anything alone", the tank-engineers were "just trying to live a life", the soldiers invading Ukraine "really have no influence", so they choose to murder Ukrainians instead of turning their guns on those they allegedly have no influence over.
    - dmitrygr 4y ago
      $higher_power willing you never end up with a choice of either obeying orders to go kill someone or having your family executed in front of you. Bottom level grunts only have this choice.
- lawn 4y ago
  Some Russians are oppressed and really poor. Those who should take responsibility are the rich who also don't have to worry about being sent to war. The question is, how do we make them take responsibility?
  - vkou 4y ago
    > The question is, how do we make them take responsibility? Easy. Sanctions, travel bans, financial restrictions, and stop buying natgas.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > people living in russia should bear responsibility for what russia does Ramzan Kadirov is a regional warlord in russia, known foe decades for murder and torture. Before the war he had instagram and other social media accounts. Should the Western leaders ever take responsebility for working with blooduly dictators when it suits? As opposed to some poor John Doe in the middle of Siberia, who protested mutiple times and got nothing but a broken skull to show for it https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/09/the-observer-view-on-anti-kremlin-protests-in-siberia https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/09/the-ob...

hef19898 4y ago

Ukraine deserves all the support it can get. From NATO and othet allied / supporting nations. Private donations a drop in the bucket. Reminder: If Afghan or other refugees from the various wars and occupations in that region of the world send money to finance resistence, we in the West have a tendency to call it funding of terrorism.

luckylion 4y ago
Pretty much only if they support the Taliban or ISIS though, who they're allegedly fleeing from. If someone fled from Russia because they didn't want to fight in Ukraine, but then sent money to Russia "for the war efforts", would you consider that reasonable?

khazhoux 4y ago

> dedicated a significant percentage of their salary to that effect Russian citizens don't bear the financial responsibility (or the moral blame) for what Putin in doing.

Gravityloss 4y ago
How do you think democracy came to be in the countries where it exists?
- khazhoux 4y ago
  Maybe I was unclear. The comment above mine said Russian citizens should donate a significant portion of their earnings to Ukraine. That's the part I objected to.

jjulius 4y ago

With all due respect, I believe that you are demonstrating a strong, fundamental misunderstanding of what life is like for a refugee, which results in your comment coming off as tone deaf.

jwr 4y ago
"Refugee" is a broad category. I know a number of Russians who left their country and live very well in Western cities, with well-paying IT jobs. Some of them regularly write about the subtler aspects of newly announced Apple hardware. People like you and me. So — tone deaf, perhaps, but only if you have a stereotypical image of a "refugee" in your mind.
- jjulius 4y ago
  >"Refugee" is a broad category. It sure is! And yet, emphasis mine: >... everyone who did get out...