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This articulates why I became disillusioned. The fantasy described in the beginning is what I typically see in solarpunk literature, which is just as unrealisti

by hosh 4y ago

This articulates why I became disillusioned. The fantasy described in the beginning is what I typically see in solarpunk literature, which is just as unrealistic. I find myself with a lot more optimism about what comes out of permaculture design. Whether permaculture design and regenerative paradigms ultimately can help, still requires us to change our way of life. Now, no one is going to that. I think most people want to cling to the fundamentals of their way of life. Even giving up fossil fuels for “green energy” is giving up something more superficial while still clinging to the fantasy of unlimited, on-demand energy. Nothing fundamental has changed about the way of life or the world view that goes with it. Fortunately, for me at least, I think a found a path that works even if most people don’t want to climb on board.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> Fortunately, for me at least, I think a found a path that works even if most people don’t want to climb on board. Would love for you to share this with me. I am doing my own thing as well. A friend and I have been talking about how to raise others consciousness about all of this if it is possible and the only conclusion we come to is to push the Overton window so far that it jolts peoples mental system. So we are striving to live a life like Franciscans, Buddhists, and Daoists. What do we really need to be content? How do we cope with our deconditioning from all the material wants? I almost stopped reading that article because of the beginning paragraphs. Glad I did not.
- hosh 4y ago
  I had the same reaction to the first few paragraphs. I’m glad it is written, and hope it wakes more people up to it. I don’t know if the author has looked into stuff like permaculture design principles and permaculture ethical principles. Those in turn were distilled from indigenous communities — point being, we do have something in our collective consciousness on how to do this … it’s just not in modernity. As far as deconditioning from our material wants — I do see some of this pop up from time to time. Minimalism. Marie Kondo. Mindfulness. I’ve also learned that people are walking their paths, and each of us have to discover the truths within ourselves. A society that uses _regenerative_ (not just sustainable) principles and practices, can open up space for people to get in touch within. However, it’s still something that someone has to voluntarily give it a try. Have you looked into the work of Carol Sanford? She has chosen to try to transform business for decades now, and managed to do that for the companies she worked with. There are also things I’m open to discussing further — in relation to Buddhism, Daoism, Consciousness, etc., just not in a public forum here. If you like to discuss those, you can email me at talktohosh at gmail.
- hosh 4y ago
  Also, I missed you asking about sharing what I found. Permaculture was the gateway into the world of what is possible. Consider, for example, the 3 permaculture ethical principles: - Care of Earth - Care of People - Fair Share This is all voluntary. It’s not about making people change, or changing the masses. The design principles shows a way of decentralizing food production in a way that is more resilient, adaptive, and also works with the culture (and not just the technologies or methods, hence “perma-culture”)Although the two people who originally put this together doesn’t address Consciousness or spirituality, I have found that these design principles can lead to way of life that has room and integrates cultivation of consciousness. That also lead me to Carol Sanford. You look around at articles and podcast, and then at some point, you see her mentioned all over the place in the permaculture world. As a hint of what is possible, with just better management of water, this series of video talks about implementing better use of water in India, and how it not only restored watersheds, but also helped people socially and addressed economic inequality: Episode 1: “Solving the Crisis in 45 Days” https://youtu.be/-8nqnOcoLqE https://youtu.be/-8nqnOcoLqE Episode 3: “From Poverty to Permaculture” https://youtu.be/KtHuIlfyJao https://youtu.be/KtHuIlfyJao Episode 7: “50 Years of Permaculture at Auroville” https://youtu.be/wcYL5Uya5MU https://youtu.be/wcYL5Uya5MU There are more. We can chat about it by email — talktohosh at gmail
throw827474737 4y ago
Huh, for me solar punk actually is renewable tech mixed with also the mind set deemend necessary in the article (fully agree), especially embracing also e.g. permaculture? e.g. the self-sustaining small farm, cutting down also a lot on modern lifestyle, but still some you need, and instead of the Diesel generator its solar panel + battery. Admitted, solar punk leaves lot of room for interpretation : - )
- hosh 4y ago
  So as an example, solarpunk generally look at centralized energy and food solutions rather than decentralized, local solutions. Compare, say, the various urban, walkable communities with green plants vs Auroville in India. Auroville was built from a wasteland, and over the past 50 years, has restored the ecosystem them, and in a way where people can still live well. We’re talking about hotels with onsite blackwater treatment (as an example), or reforestration with perennial food forests. Solarpunk, by and large, does not represent a change in worldview or paradigm whereas permaculture does.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Did the propaganda work so well that there's really so many people out there thinking the real problem of climate change is not fossil carbon, but just human beings having access to energy? Would it be impolite to ask anyone who believes that to just remain silent until after we get rid of the fossil fuels that are causing pollution, climate change, wars and undermining science? Because it really muddies the waters if you go around saying you do actually want humans not to have energy at all. You appear to have accepted and embraced what was only ever a straw man argument made by fossil fuel companies to delay progress in addressing climate change.
- hosh 4y ago
  There is a lot more problems than just energy. For example, the way we farm accelerates the degeneration of the global ecosystem. The same with our use of water, both agricultural, and residential. If you only address fossil fuels, it will help, but won’t solve the issues of ecosystem and environmental collapse.
cptcobalt 4y ago
> The fantasy described in the beginning is what I typically see in solarpunk literature, which is just as unrealistic. Yet, utopian and dystopian tales are still an effective literary device—utopian tales can be as possible as dystopian tales. We're far closer to a world imagined in 1984 and Brave New World than utopian counterparts. They were warning signs—and as works of fiction, they don't come to 100% fruition, but you can see through lines predicted by them that are real today. Maybe something would click that triggers us to work our asses off. But in present day, it's more likely to be a puzzle-box tv show, epic movie, or a viral TikTok than a blog post.

by hosh 4y ago

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

> Fortunately, for me at least, I think a found a path that works even if most people don’t want to climb on board. Would love for you to share this with me. I am doing my own thing as well. A friend and I have been talking about how to raise others consciousness about all of this if it is possible and the only conclusion we come to is to push the Overton window so far that it jolts peoples mental system. So we are striving to live a life like Franciscans, Buddhists, and Daoists. What do we really need to be content? How do we cope with our deconditioning from all the material wants? I almost stopped reading that article because of the beginning paragraphs. Glad I did not.

hosh 4y ago
I had the same reaction to the first few paragraphs. I’m glad it is written, and hope it wakes more people up to it. I don’t know if the author has looked into stuff like permaculture design principles and permaculture ethical principles. Those in turn were distilled from indigenous communities — point being, we do have something in our collective consciousness on how to do this … it’s just not in modernity. As far as deconditioning from our material wants — I do see some of this pop up from time to time. Minimalism. Marie Kondo. Mindfulness. I’ve also learned that people are walking their paths, and each of us have to discover the truths within ourselves. A society that uses _regenerative_ (not just sustainable) principles and practices, can open up space for people to get in touch within. However, it’s still something that someone has to voluntarily give it a try. Have you looked into the work of Carol Sanford? She has chosen to try to transform business for decades now, and managed to do that for the companies she worked with. There are also things I’m open to discussing further — in relation to Buddhism, Daoism, Consciousness, etc., just not in a public forum here. If you like to discuss those, you can email me at talktohosh at gmail.
hosh 4y ago
Also, I missed you asking about sharing what I found. Permaculture was the gateway into the world of what is possible. Consider, for example, the 3 permaculture ethical principles: - Care of Earth - Care of People - Fair Share This is all voluntary. It’s not about making people change, or changing the masses. The design principles shows a way of decentralizing food production in a way that is more resilient, adaptive, and also works with the culture (and not just the technologies or methods, hence “perma-culture”)Although the two people who originally put this together doesn’t address Consciousness or spirituality, I have found that these design principles can lead to way of life that has room and integrates cultivation of consciousness. That also lead me to Carol Sanford. You look around at articles and podcast, and then at some point, you see her mentioned all over the place in the permaculture world. As a hint of what is possible, with just better management of water, this series of video talks about implementing better use of water in India, and how it not only restored watersheds, but also helped people socially and addressed economic inequality: Episode 1: “Solving the Crisis in 45 Days” https://youtu.be/-8nqnOcoLqE https://youtu.be/-8nqnOcoLqE Episode 3: “From Poverty to Permaculture” https://youtu.be/KtHuIlfyJao https://youtu.be/KtHuIlfyJao Episode 7: “50 Years of Permaculture at Auroville” https://youtu.be/wcYL5Uya5MU https://youtu.be/wcYL5Uya5MU There are more. We can chat about it by email — talktohosh at gmail

throw827474737 4y ago

Huh, for me solar punk actually is renewable tech mixed with also the mind set deemend necessary in the article (fully agree), especially embracing also e.g. permaculture? e.g. the self-sustaining small farm, cutting down also a lot on modern lifestyle, but still some you need, and instead of the Diesel generator its solar panel + battery. Admitted, solar punk leaves lot of room for interpretation : - )

hosh 4y ago
So as an example, solarpunk generally look at centralized energy and food solutions rather than decentralized, local solutions. Compare, say, the various urban, walkable communities with green plants vs Auroville in India. Auroville was built from a wasteland, and over the past 50 years, has restored the ecosystem them, and in a way where people can still live well. We’re talking about hotels with onsite blackwater treatment (as an example), or reforestration with perennial food forests. Solarpunk, by and large, does not represent a change in worldview or paradigm whereas permaculture does.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

Did the propaganda work so well that there's really so many people out there thinking the real problem of climate change is not fossil carbon, but just human beings having access to energy? Would it be impolite to ask anyone who believes that to just remain silent until after we get rid of the fossil fuels that are causing pollution, climate change, wars and undermining science? Because it really muddies the waters if you go around saying you do actually want humans not to have energy at all. You appear to have accepted and embraced what was only ever a straw man argument made by fossil fuel companies to delay progress in addressing climate change.

hosh 4y ago
There is a lot more problems than just energy. For example, the way we farm accelerates the degeneration of the global ecosystem. The same with our use of water, both agricultural, and residential. If you only address fossil fuels, it will help, but won’t solve the issues of ecosystem and environmental collapse.

cptcobalt 4y ago

> The fantasy described in the beginning is what I typically see in solarpunk literature, which is just as unrealistic. Yet, utopian and dystopian tales are still an effective literary device—utopian tales can be as possible as dystopian tales. We're far closer to a world imagined in 1984 and Brave New World than utopian counterparts. They were warning signs—and as works of fiction, they don't come to 100% fruition, but you can see through lines predicted by them that are real today. Maybe something would click that triggers us to work our asses off. But in present day, it's more likely to be a puzzle-box tv show, epic movie, or a viral TikTok than a blog post.