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> Watching someone spin 1k slots knowing they are making millions from advertising is very different from watching someone spin 5 dollar slots of their own mone

> Watching someone spin 1k slots knowing they are making millions from advertising is very different from watching someone spin 5 dollar slots of their own money It's not just where the money is coming from but whether the odds are different from regular players. The gambling sites who sponsor this can very well adjust the odds per user so that the streamer gets consistent wins where as real players get the real odds which favor the house. I've seen such gambling "ads" on YouTube, obviously they're not presented as ads nor even as gambling, rather they're presented as a way of making money, a loophole in the game, all the way to saying that there used to be an old version of this game but they closed it down due to many people winning, but this new game also has a loophole (how convenient!). In the "ad", they were consistently winning, in such a way where there's basically no way to lose even if you tried it on purpose. I very much doubt the video was falsified, rather the gambling platform was able to change the odds per-use so that their affiliates can get consistent wins so they can promote the platforms without requiring video trickery.

lovehashbrowns 4y ago
At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Two of those websites, the ones I’m familiar with, use (at least some of) the same third party websites. For example, Pragmatic Play. It’s a vastly different conspiracy to say that the websites listed on Twitch’s policy are setting odds in favor of their affiliates when it involves at least two different companies. That’s not to say this has never happened before, though. There was previously a website called CSGO Shuffle on Twitch that was setting odds in favor of their owners and partners, but those owners and partners also didn’t disclose that they were advertising and didn’t disclose that they were involved in the company. https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phantoml0rd-gambling-site-own-secretly-csgo https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phan...
- Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
  >At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Not strictly true. Casino operators have access to the game provider tools. Some providers allow you to tweak RTP per game or even per player. Yes, the Casino operator doesn't make the games, but they don't need to when the game creators expose all this configuration through their tooling and APIs.
  - lovehashbrowns 4y ago
    Thank you for the correction. Do you know if this is true for the providers commonly used by the websites listed in the new Twitch policy, e.g. Stake?
    - 111111101101 4y ago
      I think that Stake make their own games. Or at least a company owned by the same people as Stake makes the games. From https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/the-secret-australian-origins-of-the-world-s-biggest-crypto-casino-20211208-p59ftb.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/the-secret-australia... > In 2016, the pair set up Easygo which focused on developing games for online casinos and helped build Stake.com into an online casino powerhouse.
      - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
        Stake started out at bitcointalk with the socalled original dice games, this then gree into a new era of games usually and still not provided by the classic game play providers. These games are now also available as a nodeJS package for sale. However, many of their games are from the classic providers.
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    The only difference on rtp between settings in the new rtp setting for Germany. Even this is not configurable by the operator. No casino can access any rtp settings from game play providers, I work with them every day. Especially on player level sounds absolutely impossible for any reputable provider. I am signing the contracts and implementing the bonus engines etc. It is unheard of in the regulated market. I would be surprised if this were true, kindly list the providers which do that, I will be happy to eat my words.
fckgw 4y ago
The casinos do not set the odds on the games, the game providers do. You can play the same games across many online casinos, much like how you can play the same slots across many Vegas casinos. They cannot adjust odds of the slots, that's not how that works. The casinos can cover any losses of slot streamers however.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  It sounds like you're talking about real casinos in well regulated jurisdictions. But a big part of the problem is "totally-not-a-casino" casinos which pretend to be something else because most of their clients are children.
  - fckgw 4y ago
    Online casinos are, in fact, regulated. Also why does this "children" thing keep coming up? Casinos don't want children to play their games, they don't even have money to spend!
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      They might steal the credit card one or two time. And even then the gains are less worth than the hassle from charge backs or possible legal action.
    - 111111101101 4y ago
      There are casinos aimed at children but instead of playing for money they play for game skins which can be sold for money.
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  This comments is unfairly downvoted. I am a head of operations in an online casino. I am responsible for gameplay provider integrations, psp integrations and many things more. The slots rtp is absolutely set by the game play providers, even the aggregators just pass it on. It is not configurable in any way, not on user level, not on casino operator level, it is always global scope. The game play providers earn by rev share, they are the top of the food chain and it would be economical suicide to provide different APIs, they have some settings depending on some GEOs, but these are things like no auto play, stake limits etc. Any regulated casino is using these, the audience is not naive, of course, there are some fly by night operators using pirate games, but this gets detected fast and is often the reason for these casinos having bad rep online, amongst affiliates who will not have them listed etc. These are operated by incompetent people.
vkou 4y ago
This sort of chicanery is precisely why I'm of the mind that, while gambling should not be banned (as that just drives it underground) it should be banned from advertising/twitch/etc. Let people get into destructive behaviours, but for Pete's sake, don't promote the damn thing.
Ekaros 4y ago
There has been some real loopholes and probably still are. Outside outright bugs the promotional offers with free credit and certain low variance high return slots allowed in certain scenarios for people to make theoretical profit. Though most likely ended up gambling any net wins anyway so...
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Yes but that was not it. The game that was demonstrated in this ad was something called “Lucky Jet” or “Aviator” where you bet some money and then there’s a multiplier than goes up starting from 0 - at some point the multiplier will crash and you lose your bet, so your objective is to cash out before that. For the game to be profitable you’d need the multiplier to sometimes crash before 1, but in his video that never happened and he was consistently able to cash out in profit. If these were the real odds the casino would be bankrupt very quickly. Maybe the casino is crooked in a different way and just finds excuses to never let you withdraw your winnings, so they can really give you good odds knowing you’ll never actually be able to withdraw your winnings.
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
The trickery is not via RTP, it is by other means, which I better not share here, it is a common marketing strategy. Rest assured, there is no tricks with rtp, but the tricks in use are morally not exactly better than that, the industry insiders im high enough positions know. And of course the streamers.

lovehashbrowns 4y ago

At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Two of those websites, the ones I’m familiar with, use (at least some of) the same third party websites. For example, Pragmatic Play. It’s a vastly different conspiracy to say that the websites listed on Twitch’s policy are setting odds in favor of their affiliates when it involves at least two different companies. That’s not to say this has never happened before, though. There was previously a website called CSGO Shuffle on Twitch that was setting odds in favor of their owners and partners, but those owners and partners also didn’t disclose that they were advertising and didn’t disclose that they were involved in the company. https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phantoml0rd-gambling-site-own-secretly-csgo https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246138/twitch-bans-phan...

Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
>At least for two of the websites listed by Twitch in the new policy, the websites themselves don’t set the odds. They don’t even make the slot games. A third party creates the games, sets the odds, and provides these websites an API for them to use. Not strictly true. Casino operators have access to the game provider tools. Some providers allow you to tweak RTP per game or even per player. Yes, the Casino operator doesn't make the games, but they don't need to when the game creators expose all this configuration through their tooling and APIs.
- lovehashbrowns 4y ago
  Thank you for the correction. Do you know if this is true for the providers commonly used by the websites listed in the new Twitch policy, e.g. Stake?
  - 111111101101 4y ago
    I think that Stake make their own games. Or at least a company owned by the same people as Stake makes the games. From https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/the-secret-australian-origins-of-the-world-s-biggest-crypto-casino-20211208-p59ftb.html https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/the-secret-australia... > In 2016, the pair set up Easygo which focused on developing games for online casinos and helped build Stake.com into an online casino powerhouse.
    - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
      Stake started out at bitcointalk with the socalled original dice games, this then gree into a new era of games usually and still not provided by the classic game play providers. These games are now also available as a nodeJS package for sale. However, many of their games are from the classic providers.
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  The only difference on rtp between settings in the new rtp setting for Germany. Even this is not configurable by the operator. No casino can access any rtp settings from game play providers, I work with them every day. Especially on player level sounds absolutely impossible for any reputable provider. I am signing the contracts and implementing the bonus engines etc. It is unheard of in the regulated market. I would be surprised if this were true, kindly list the providers which do that, I will be happy to eat my words.

fckgw 4y ago

The casinos do not set the odds on the games, the game providers do. You can play the same games across many online casinos, much like how you can play the same slots across many Vegas casinos. They cannot adjust odds of the slots, that's not how that works. The casinos can cover any losses of slot streamers however.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
It sounds like you're talking about real casinos in well regulated jurisdictions. But a big part of the problem is "totally-not-a-casino" casinos which pretend to be something else because most of their clients are children.
- fckgw 4y ago
  Online casinos are, in fact, regulated. Also why does this "children" thing keep coming up? Casinos don't want children to play their games, they don't even have money to spend!
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    They might steal the credit card one or two time. And even then the gains are less worth than the hassle from charge backs or possible legal action.
  - 111111101101 4y ago
    There are casinos aimed at children but instead of playing for money they play for game skins which can be sold for money.
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
This comments is unfairly downvoted. I am a head of operations in an online casino. I am responsible for gameplay provider integrations, psp integrations and many things more. The slots rtp is absolutely set by the game play providers, even the aggregators just pass it on. It is not configurable in any way, not on user level, not on casino operator level, it is always global scope. The game play providers earn by rev share, they are the top of the food chain and it would be economical suicide to provide different APIs, they have some settings depending on some GEOs, but these are things like no auto play, stake limits etc. Any regulated casino is using these, the audience is not naive, of course, there are some fly by night operators using pirate games, but this gets detected fast and is often the reason for these casinos having bad rep online, amongst affiliates who will not have them listed etc. These are operated by incompetent people.

vkou 4y ago

This sort of chicanery is precisely why I'm of the mind that, while gambling should not be banned (as that just drives it underground) it should be banned from advertising/twitch/etc. Let people get into destructive behaviours, but for Pete's sake, don't promote the damn thing.

Ekaros 4y ago

There has been some real loopholes and probably still are. Outside outright bugs the promotional offers with free credit and certain low variance high return slots allowed in certain scenarios for people to make theoretical profit. Though most likely ended up gambling any net wins anyway so...

Nextgrid 4y ago
Yes but that was not it. The game that was demonstrated in this ad was something called “Lucky Jet” or “Aviator” where you bet some money and then there’s a multiplier than goes up starting from 0 - at some point the multiplier will crash and you lose your bet, so your objective is to cash out before that. For the game to be profitable you’d need the multiplier to sometimes crash before 1, but in his video that never happened and he was consistently able to cash out in profit. If these were the real odds the casino would be bankrupt very quickly. Maybe the casino is crooked in a different way and just finds excuses to never let you withdraw your winnings, so they can really give you good odds knowing you’ll never actually be able to withdraw your winnings.

omgomgomgomg 4y ago

The trickery is not via RTP, it is by other means, which I better not share here, it is a common marketing strategy. Rest assured, there is no tricks with rtp, but the tricks in use are morally not exactly better than that, the industry insiders im high enough positions know. And of course the streamers.