6 ms·

The probabilities of bad things happening are vastly different for an undercover operator than for ordinary people, that's why it doesn't make sense to blindly

by t_mann 4y ago

The probabilities of bad things happening are vastly different for an undercover operator than for ordinary people, that's why it doesn't make sense to blindly apply the model of a 'knowledgeable expert' for everyone. I didn't say "don't read maps beforehand", I was saying "don't be afraid to check a map when you're on the street". This 'minimize risk at all cost' mindset is very similar to the helicopter parenting lifestyle where it's considered almost a crime to let your kids roam just outside the direct line of sight of their parents. PS: also interesting to note that both critical comments ended with ad hominem attacks.

toss1 4y ago
>>The probabilities of bad things happening are vastly different for an undercover operator than for ordinary people Perhaps, but the article is focused on potential disasters irrelevant to operatives and just that randomly occur to any traveler - fire/natural disaster, theft, ordinary random mugging, terrorist activity often focused on hotels used by foreigners, etc. I saw nothing that was not generally applicable. >>This 'minimize risk at all cost' mindset is very similar to the helicopter parenting lifestyle I'm as much against 'helicopter parenting' as anyone, yet this is just the opposite — it gives everyone a starting set of simple steps to take that increases their ability to operate independently, i.e., not being dependent on parents, etc. for your security, but taking care of oneself. >>I was saying "don't be afraid to check a map when you're on the street". Umm, depends on the situation, and on how befuddled you are going to look. Midtown Manhattan, London, etc., on a weekday noontime? Ya, just don't do it in the middle of the sidewalk and obstruct traffic. Any other city or tourist destination? I'd certainly step off the street first. Might as well put a sticker on my back in the local language saying "rob me". >> critical comments ended with ad hominem attacks. IDK about other comments, but I was not speaking ad hominem, simply trying to suss out why it is so important for someone to actively spend time to denigrate good security measures (which also help one enjoy the surroundings more, e.g., learning the terrain up front). Why is it important to you that other people don't do things like learn the terrain in advance? Why not just read the article and say "meh?" and move on?
- ryandrake 4y ago
  I can't believe all the grief this story is getting on HN. I read the article and they seemed to be sensible, inexpensive, easy steps you can take to increase your safety while traveling. Why so much objection? Someone else mentioned cost/benefit. The only suggestion that had any cost was the doorstops. People are talking about probabilities. Even if the probability of something bad happening is close to zero, it still makes sense to take safety precautions that are zero cost/zero effort. I don't understand the mentality that insists on lashing out against trivial safety measures.
  - DonHopkins 4y ago
  - lm28469 4y ago
    Where do you stop though ? Do you always do the "4 right turns" trick every time you come home to know if you're followed ? it's also free and you never know right ? What's your threat scenario ? If you fear for your life when going in a random hotel as a random civilian I'd highly recommend updating your vacation destinations
    - toss1 4y ago
      >>What's your threat scenario ? If you fear for your life when ... It is not just "fear for your life", it is simply being a bit prepared for the kinds of thefts and emergencies that are not uncommon. It is not like petty thieves preying on tourists only frequent the favelas of Rio; they're in just about any tourist town. The threat and response model is merely don't make it obvious that you're a target, and take a few steps so that if you do get targeted, it isn't a disaster - you lose some currency and a wallet, but not your passport, credit cards, etc., and especially not your only copy of that key info. And you know where to go find help if you need it, or to escape in a disaster. This is no different than wearing a seat belt in an automobile, a helmet on a motorcycle. You aren't planning to crash, you are just taking minor precautions in case you do. I've been driving for decades, always worn a seatbelt, thankfully never yet needed it to keep me lashed down in a crash, but one did help save me from crashing keeping me located in the seat in one energetic emergency evasion maneuver. Yet I only wear my helmet on the racetrack. I do not feel the need to re-evaluate my threat model of either driving or toursiting, but I did add a few of those suggestions to my travel checklist.

by t_mann 4y ago

toss1 4y ago

>>The probabilities of bad things happening are vastly different for an undercover operator than for ordinary people Perhaps, but the article is focused on potential disasters irrelevant to operatives and just that randomly occur to any traveler - fire/natural disaster, theft, ordinary random mugging, terrorist activity often focused on hotels used by foreigners, etc. I saw nothing that was not generally applicable. >>This 'minimize risk at all cost' mindset is very similar to the helicopter parenting lifestyle I'm as much against 'helicopter parenting' as anyone, yet this is just the opposite — it gives everyone a starting set of simple steps to take that increases their ability to operate independently, i.e., not being dependent on parents, etc. for your security, but taking care of oneself. >>I was saying "don't be afraid to check a map when you're on the street". Umm, depends on the situation, and on how befuddled you are going to look. Midtown Manhattan, London, etc., on a weekday noontime? Ya, just don't do it in the middle of the sidewalk and obstruct traffic. Any other city or tourist destination? I'd certainly step off the street first. Might as well put a sticker on my back in the local language saying "rob me". >> critical comments ended with ad hominem attacks. IDK about other comments, but I was not speaking ad hominem, simply trying to suss out why it is so important for someone to actively spend time to denigrate good security measures (which also help one enjoy the surroundings more, e.g., learning the terrain up front). Why is it important to you that other people don't do things like learn the terrain in advance? Why not just read the article and say "meh?" and move on?

ryandrake 4y ago
I can't believe all the grief this story is getting on HN. I read the article and they seemed to be sensible, inexpensive, easy steps you can take to increase your safety while traveling. Why so much objection? Someone else mentioned cost/benefit. The only suggestion that had any cost was the doorstops. People are talking about probabilities. Even if the probability of something bad happening is close to zero, it still makes sense to take safety precautions that are zero cost/zero effort. I don't understand the mentality that insists on lashing out against trivial safety measures.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
- lm28469 4y ago
  Where do you stop though ? Do you always do the "4 right turns" trick every time you come home to know if you're followed ? it's also free and you never know right ? What's your threat scenario ? If you fear for your life when going in a random hotel as a random civilian I'd highly recommend updating your vacation destinations
  - toss1 4y ago
    >>What's your threat scenario ? If you fear for your life when ... It is not just "fear for your life", it is simply being a bit prepared for the kinds of thefts and emergencies that are not uncommon. It is not like petty thieves preying on tourists only frequent the favelas of Rio; they're in just about any tourist town. The threat and response model is merely don't make it obvious that you're a target, and take a few steps so that if you do get targeted, it isn't a disaster - you lose some currency and a wallet, but not your passport, credit cards, etc., and especially not your only copy of that key info. And you know where to go find help if you need it, or to escape in a disaster. This is no different than wearing a seat belt in an automobile, a helmet on a motorcycle. You aren't planning to crash, you are just taking minor precautions in case you do. I've been driving for decades, always worn a seatbelt, thankfully never yet needed it to keep me lashed down in a crash, but one did help save me from crashing keeping me located in the seat in one energetic emergency evasion maneuver. Yet I only wear my helmet on the racetrack. I do not feel the need to re-evaluate my threat model of either driving or toursiting, but I did add a few of those suggestions to my travel checklist.