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Banned in the USA: The Growing Movement to Censor Books in Schools
- lurtbancaster 4y agoI'll be honest. I'm really struggling to charitably interpret the reasons behind why a person might choose to flag this particular post. The article is well researched and contains a potential reading list, for those interested. To dang et al part of moderation/admin - Does this post really not meet HN guidelines? Also as a suggestion, whenever a person might choose to flag a post, it would help if there were a drop down menu that listed some options like "Flag it for...<insert frequent reason>", that might indicate to the OP on what the perceived transgression might be; without revealing the name of the flagger, of course. At the time of writing there is just "flag" or "unflag", which lacks nuance. It's been ~24 hours, the flagged status hasn't been lifted, and I'm none the wiser on why.
- workingdog 4y agoAlso... the growing movement to sexualize other people's children.
- yeuxardents 4y agoThere _already_ is and has ben censorship of books in schools for decades upon decades....adult sex novels are not included in the average school library and for good reason, and thats exactly what this is about as well, as you point out.
- m_mueller 4y agoI'd like a bit more differentiated discussion on this - does LGBTQ actually mean sexual topics or does it include a book where having same-sex parents is shown as normal? From skimming the article that wasn't quite clear to me.
- malcolmgreaves 4y agoThe latter. There's an entirely different category for sexual content. If you look at the bar chart, you'll see that these bans are predominantly targeting books that have LGBTQ characters. And books that have non-white characters.
- willcipriano 4y agoOne school board wouldn't let a parent read a except from one of the books due to the content being deemed inappropriate for children: https://www.foxnews.com/us/parent-reading-sexual-content-school-cut-off-board-member-irony https://www.foxnews.com/us/parent-reading-sexual-content-sch...
- jasonlotito 4y agoThis is misleading. It was a high-school level book being read over a broadcast which they wanted to make available for children not at a high school level. It was being read by a mother of children who weren't in high school, and did not have access to the book.
- willcipriano 4y agoWhy would a mere depiction of gay characters be inappropriate for young children?
- jasonlotito 4y agoI don't know. I didn't suggest it, nor did I make any mention or provide any opinion on the matter. I read the article you published as evidence, and provided the context showing how you were misrepresenting the story to suit whatever false narrative you were pushing. I'm not sure what agenda you have here, but lying to demonstrate something is never a good sign.
- eesmith 4y agoI don't know how you interpret this as "a mere depiction of gay characters." The given quote in the video you linked to was: "Excited now, he pushed into her, and she squeezed her eyes as tightly as she could, her tongue circling her lips. He pushed harder, his breath heavy and labored. She scratched his back, and he cried out. She bit his ear and pulled his hair." This is a description of what appears to be heterosexual characters. Nor does it appear to be a "mere depiction". I would reserve that for something like "Heather Has Two Mommies" (a mere description of a homosexual couple) or "Mr. and Mrs. Brown" (a mere description of a heterosexual couple who have befriended a bear from darkest Peru).
- kradeelav 4y agoMay I ask where you're seeing this?
- CedarMills 4y agoThe fight is with the parents vs. educators. They can't stand that parents have ability to choose what books their kids should (or shouldn't) read.
- lern_too_spel 4y agoAh, so these parents should be able to say their child shouldn't read a biology textbook that discusses the theory of evolution?
- CedarMills 4y agoAh yes, the slipper slope. Let's be honest, librarians and educators have a ton of power and no oversight in indoctrinating children into the views that they want. Now that parents are challenging them, all of sudden, PEN America believes that parents should have no say on the material their kids read.
- lern_too_spel 4y agoIt's not a slippery slope. That is literally what you are advocating. The same parents who don't want their children to know what Ruby Bridges went through or that gay people exist also don't want their children to learn about evolution.
- moistly 4y agoNonono. They’re saying your child shouldn't read a biology textbook that discusses the theory of evolution.
- jasonlotito 4y agoParents already have that. They are now trying to limit it for other children. Why should I be allowed to deny your children access to books at school?
- msackler1 4y ago
- novantadue 4y agoAnd to trans other people's children. Children need be protected from activists with weird sexual fetishes. https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/canadian-transgender-teacher-with-ginormous-prosthetic-clown-boobs/ https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/canadian-transgender-t...
- mistrial9 4y agogrowing movement to portray same-sex marriage to ages 4-7 repeatedly
- mavhc 4y agoI hear some babies spend 100% of their lives around same-sex married couples
- zapdrive 4y agoI'm also flabbergasted by that. This movement to ban books is just the pendulum swinging in the other direction, because it was moved too far up to the other side.
- duncan-donuts 4y agoKids knowing that same-sex marriage exists (and is okay!) isn’t going to hurt them
- ironlake 4y agoYeah, that's what I'm talking about. This is the good fascism we've been looking for. That durn pendulum of freedom has swung too far in the direction of the gays and the crossdressers. We have to ban books to fix it!
- mantas 4y agoBrave new world. At some point freedom just becomes hedonism. Eventually hedonism starts to enforce hedonistic mantras on the whole society, it becomes yet another flavor of fascism.
- oneplane 4y agoSo freedom, except for books some people don't like?
- CedarMills 4y ago
- ignormies 4y agoIf it's just parental complaint, surely every state would have "banned" books? I find it unlikely that no parent in all of California complained (to who?) about a book.
- nness 4y agoIts not that: > PEN America defines a school book ban as any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a previously accessible book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished. Parents saying "I don't want my kids reading this" is very different than a parents' complaint which reduces access to or availability of that book.
- englishrookie 4y agoFrom the article: "PEN America defines a school book ban as any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a previously accessible book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished." So I'd say it's more than "parent complaints". The books under discussion are not accessible anymore according to PEN's definition.
- suddentlythuban 4y agoIn the introduction of this article: "PEN America defines a school book ban as any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a previously accessible book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished." It sounds like PEN would not consider just a complaint they heard a parent make about a book as a ban on a book. If an entity that has books restricted or diminished access to the book because a parent (or other group) complained, PEN would consider that a book ban. That is a rigorous and unbiased definition of a book ban.
- a_shovel 4y agoRelated discussion from yesterday: "US librarians face unprecedented attacks amid rightwing book bans", The Guardian. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32915214 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32915214
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- cat_plus_plus 4y agoSchools are taxpayer run and can't provide every single book. So how do we decided which books are taught? Seems up to elected officials, school boards etc?
- scarmig 4y agoThe list of banned books is incomplete. For instance, Gone with the Wind was banned in ~~Alameda~~ Anaheim[0], but California is listed as having no banned books. Students should have access to any books they are likely to have heard of or are of educational value. [0] https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2013/04/07/banned-books-awareness-gone-with-the-wind/ https://bbark.deepforestproductions.com/column/2013/04/07/ba...
- lern_too_spel 4y agoYour article doesn't say that Alameda County banned Gone with the Wind. Alameda County has multiple school districts within it. Which one are you claiming banned the book, and where is the evidence?
- scarmig 4y agoMisread, thanks for the correction; it was Anaheim, not Alameda. Early morning brain fart, but the point still stands.
- a_shovel 4y agoThe source says it was banned in 1978. I suspect that the ban may not still be in effect.
- scarmig 4y agoIt'd be interesting to see what books each school library makes available to confirm; I'm not aware of a way to find that information. Slightly different, but more recently in Burbank several other books were banned from being included in curricula amid parent outcry: https://abc7news.com/to-kill-a-mockingbird-ban-book-bank-burbank-unified-school-district-books-on-race/7988800/ https://abc7news.com/to-kill-a-mockingbird-ban-book-bank-bur...
- tvanantwerp 4y agoBook bans just feel silly and antiquated in the age of the Internet. If kids want to read something, they can get it on their phones—that and probably much worse than anything that would ever end up in any school library.
- nness 4y agoI feel like banned books act as a litmus test for the broader political and social landscape. If a group were successful in banning works on, say, critical race theory, it might both be a signifier that the broader cultural tolerances are shifting, or if unsuccessful, that there's an eager audience with a clear 'perspective' that can be targetted by politicians. At the very least, it seems like a punching bag or soap-box for those pushing their own agendas.
- h2odragon 4y agoHuckleberry Finn? Anarchist's Cookbook? are we arguing over which books should be banned or that no books should be banned? 'cuz I'm on the "no bans" side, myself. Seems to be the less common position.
- thr0wawayf00 4y agoWhy is it that many of the same people complaining about having their speech suppressed online are also pushing to suppress speech in the library? If we must allow all views to be expressed online, regardless of how abhorrent they are, mustn't we also permit all views to be expressed at the library? Online content managers really have no control over how old the consumers of their content are, for all we know, it's kids consuming the racist content online. At the end of the day, those who fight for "free speech" are really fighting to control which speech is free and which isn't. Author John Green said it best in a reaction regarding his first novel, Looking for Alaska being targeted for a ban[0]: > There's this surreality of the organization in question being called "Moms for Liberty" when what they're trying to do is restrict the liberty of other people's kids to read what librarians and teachers deem appropriate for those other people's kids to read 0: https://www.tiktok.com/@literallyjohngreen/video/7141804014793968942?is_from_webapp=v1&item_id=7141804014793968942 https://www.tiktok.com/@literallyjohngreen/video/71418040147...
- tarakat 4y ago[flagged]
- thr0wawayf00 4y agoParents can opt their own children out of reading material that conflicts with their beliefs. The issue is that those same parents don't want ANY children reading those books. > So what makes this different? You're seriously comparing the banning of books from libraries to kidnapping and brainwashing kids? Nobody is trying to "genocide a culture" here, people just want to have their own views represented and are being denied. That is an absurd comparison to make.
- chomp 4y ago>The nerve of those people, wanting a say in their children's education. But they're making a say in my child's education also. Let parents opt their children out of checking books out. Don't ban my kid from reading them too.
- ironlake 4y agoLots of comments in this thread talking about how books aren't being banned, just removed from school libraries, or we're just trying to control the sexual content taught to our kids. No, the books aren't banned. You can still find them in bookstores. One political party is removing access to books. They're doing it in the easiest place they can. They will never come for you because you have money and are an adult. But this is fascism and the people in the thread who are defending it are cool with fascism. They like it because it hurts people they don't like. They will defend fascism with their lives, and many of the people you work with are these people.
- cat_plus_plus 4y agoBoth political parties are removing access to books. When this book is widely available in local bookstores and presented in schools whenever other material related to minority sexual and gender identity is discussed, I will gladly change my mind. https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seducing-Daughters/dp/1684510317 https://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Damage-Transgender-Seduc...
- CedarMills 4y agoEverybody is a fascist because I'm challenged about my personal opinions.
- lern_too_spel 4y agoEverybody is a fascist who doesn't want their kids to learn that it's OK to be born different or to learn foundational science that conflicts with their religious dogma. This is different from challenging me about my favorite color.
- legitster 4y agoThe irony here is that my university quietly "delisted" a bunch of books from far-right extremists (Ann Coulter, Bill Oreilly, Jordan Peterson) but then launched protests over banned books in schools.
- 4y ago
- tarakat 4y agoBooks that are actually banned aren't in school libraries, reading lists, and Amazon won't carry them [1]. But the temptation to feel like a rebel for buying a "banned book", prominently advertised in a large corporate chain bookstore, is just too great. That is when they're not accusing free speech of being a white supremacist value. [1] https://truthout.org/articles/after-activist-pressure-amazon-purges-dozens-of-far-right-books/ https://truthout.org/articles/after-activist-pressure-amazon...
- legitster 4y agoSo... this is not a new thing. Schools have always been filtering books in libraries for age appropriateness since forever. My school libraries growing up never had Kama Sutra or Mein Kampf (probably for good reasons). I don't know what part of the "movement" is growing - is it that more books are being filtered than before, there are more books to sort through but the same ratio is being ratio, or there is just more outside attention on the process?
- eesmith 4y agoThe page addresses how this is different than filtering books for appropriateness: > It is important to recognize that books available in schools, whether in a school or classroom library, or as part of a curriculum, were selected by librarians and educators as part of the educational offerings to students. Book bans occur when those choices are overridden by school boards, administrators, teachers, or even politicians, on the basis of a particular book’s content.
- anotherevan 4y agoThe Great Bible Battle https://www.patreon.com/posts/40531144 https://www.patreon.com/posts/40531144