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Most people don't do things for ROI. My kids were definitely not "done" with ROI considered. They are costly and time-consuming, but I love them. Western count

by sveme 4y ago

Most people don't do things for ROI. My kids were definitely not "done" with ROI considered. They are costly and time-consuming, but I love them. Western countries with their lack of intergenerational support and lack of affordable child care while we have stagnating wages are probably the major reason.

IMTDb 4y ago
> They are costly and time-consuming, but I love them. That's your ROI; you spend time and energy raising them, caring for them, cleaning for them, providing for them. In return, they give you affection, love, you enjoy playing with them, or having conversation with them. If you are someone who does not enjoy spending time with children, or do not think you will enjoy seeing them grow, you usually... avoid having children since you do not see the return. At some point, you made the decision to have children because you think you would be happier with some.
- sveme 4y ago
  Seriously, this whole ROI thing does not work with kids, at least not in my case. In most cases they return vomit, poo, curses, anger, anxiety. Yet I would miss them dearly if they were gone. Can this really be rationally explained? The first one was actually an accident. As is so often the case. Life cannot always be explained using an Homo oeconomicus.
  - agent008t 4y ago
    My point is that of course once they are here you care for them, would miss them if they are gone, etc. etc. They are living beings, so of course ROI calculations no longer apply - you just want to do what's in your power for them to be happy, reduce their suffering etc. However, before you are in that situation, ROI calculations absolutely do apply. To give you an example - most people on HN that have children probably have 1-3 of them - and that's about as many as they wanted to have. But if you somehow happened to already have 10 children, would you then be selling 7-9 of them (or indeed any) to the circus? Of course not. You would love them, care for them and do the best you can, and you would miss each of them dearly if they were gone. And yet, given any degree of control over the situation, you would probably try not to have so many. Why not? Because of some calculation - let's call it the ROI calculation. It is precisely the same calculation that keeps you from having 10 children that keeps others from having any children at all.
bombcar 4y ago
I’m imagining sitting down with the kids and explaining how Bobby’s performance is adequate but Suzy needs to really up her income because the ROI is just not there, and if she doesn’t we’ll be forced to acquire a new kid.
agent008t 4y ago
Why were they "done"? How did you decide to have them? Did you enjoy spending time with other toddlers so much, that you thought you would enjoy it more than all your other hobbies (which you may have to give up), that you wanted to be doing it during the majority of your downtime, have sleepless nights etc.?
- sveme 4y ago
  I think you need to grow up.

by sveme 4y ago

IMTDb 4y ago

> They are costly and time-consuming, but I love them. That's your ROI; you spend time and energy raising them, caring for them, cleaning for them, providing for them. In return, they give you affection, love, you enjoy playing with them, or having conversation with them. If you are someone who does not enjoy spending time with children, or do not think you will enjoy seeing them grow, you usually... avoid having children since you do not see the return. At some point, you made the decision to have children because you think you would be happier with some.

sveme 4y ago
Seriously, this whole ROI thing does not work with kids, at least not in my case. In most cases they return vomit, poo, curses, anger, anxiety. Yet I would miss them dearly if they were gone. Can this really be rationally explained? The first one was actually an accident. As is so often the case. Life cannot always be explained using an Homo oeconomicus.
- agent008t 4y ago
  My point is that of course once they are here you care for them, would miss them if they are gone, etc. etc. They are living beings, so of course ROI calculations no longer apply - you just want to do what's in your power for them to be happy, reduce their suffering etc. However, before you are in that situation, ROI calculations absolutely do apply. To give you an example - most people on HN that have children probably have 1-3 of them - and that's about as many as they wanted to have. But if you somehow happened to already have 10 children, would you then be selling 7-9 of them (or indeed any) to the circus? Of course not. You would love them, care for them and do the best you can, and you would miss each of them dearly if they were gone. And yet, given any degree of control over the situation, you would probably try not to have so many. Why not? Because of some calculation - let's call it the ROI calculation. It is precisely the same calculation that keeps you from having 10 children that keeps others from having any children at all.

bombcar 4y ago

I’m imagining sitting down with the kids and explaining how Bobby’s performance is adequate but Suzy needs to really up her income because the ROI is just not there, and if she doesn’t we’ll be forced to acquire a new kid.

agent008t 4y ago

Why were they "done"? How did you decide to have them? Did you enjoy spending time with other toddlers so much, that you thought you would enjoy it more than all your other hobbies (which you may have to give up), that you wanted to be doing it during the majority of your downtime, have sleepless nights etc.?

sveme 4y ago
I think you need to grow up.