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Privacy policies are not binding agreements or contracts. Facebook didn't lie. They simply don't have to follow their privacy policy exactly, since it's not a b

Privacy policies are not binding agreements or contracts. Facebook didn't lie. They simply don't have to follow their privacy policy exactly, since it's not a binding agreement.

Bud 15y ago
No. They lied. The fact that there was, according to you, no binding contract, has no bearing on the question of whether they lied or not. They did lie. Case closed.
- dreamdu5t 15y ago
  Even if you accept it was a lie, it's not fraud. Facebook "lies" like Subway "lies" about losing weight by eating there. You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future.
  - Silhouette 15y ago
    > You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future. Fortunately, the law in many countries does not permit such one-sided terms.
  - Bud 15y ago
    You're dodging the question of whether it is a lie, which is unsurprising. I say again: Facebook lied. You didn't mention fraud, and I made no comment on fraud. I said they lied. They did. As for the clumsy smokescreen analogy about Subway, allow me to point out the obvious: Facebook made promises to users about how FACEBOOK would handle the personal property of said users. These are concrete, easily-definable promises...the kind which are easy to analyze to see if the promise was kept. It wasn't kept. Furthermore, as the FTC documented in plain English, there was a pattern of behavior, over and over again, that shows any reasonable person that not only did Facebook lie, they lied with prior intent. They never had any intention of keeping those promises and they broke them in the most egregious ways possible. By contrast, when Subway implies that customers can lose weight by eating certain foods there, they are, obviously, making no promises about how Subway will behave in the future, except an implied promise to be honest about how many calories are in their food (required by law), and to provide some lo-cal options (which they do). Really bad analogy, in every way.
    - anigbrowl 15y ago
      You're dodging the question of whether it is a lie, which is unsurprising. I say again: Facebook lied. Yeah, but lying to people isn't a crime. Defrauding them is, but lies and fraud are quite different things.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    If Subway lied in an objectively verifiable manner (as opposed to on a subjective/gray-area claim), they'd also be breaking the law. For example, if they told their customers that a certain sandwich had 6 oz of meat, and it in fact had 5 oz of meat, that wouldn't be legal. If they told their customers that their credit card transaction data was not being resold, and in fact it was, that wouldn't be legal. Facebook is alleged to have done the latter, among other things.
  - rooshdi 15y ago
    You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future. Yes, but Facebook disclosed personal information which people expected to remain private. Your Subway analogy doesn't cut it because Subway is trusted to disclose information, whereas Facebook is trusted to enclose it. Even if you accept it was a lie, it's not fraud. From the dictionary: "Fraud: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." From the FTC report: "Facebook promised users that it would not share their personal information with advertisers. It did." If that isn't fraud, I don't know what is.
  - rhizome 15y ago
    Facebook "lies" like Subway "lies" about losing weight by eating there. Jared Fogle did lose weight eating at Subway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle#Subway_campaign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle#Subway_campaign
chollida1 15y ago
No that is a lie. If I tell you I'll pick you up at 6 and have no intention of doing it, that's a lie. It's not illegal but it is a lie.
rooshdi 15y ago
Legality != Morality
sunchild 15y ago
What you said is incorrect. They do need to follow their privacy policies. It is a legal requirement. Your comment confuses basic contract legal principles with privacy rules. This isn't a contract matter; it's a matter of public policy. You can get started learning why here: http://business.ftc.gov/legal-resources/29/35 http://business.ftc.gov/legal-resources/29/35

Privacy policies are not binding agreements or contracts. Facebook didn't lie. They simply don't have to follow their privacy policy exactly, since it's not a binding agreement.

Bud 15y ago

No. They lied. The fact that there was, according to you, no binding contract, has no bearing on the question of whether they lied or not. They did lie. Case closed.

dreamdu5t 15y ago
Even if you accept it was a lie, it's not fraud. Facebook "lies" like Subway "lies" about losing weight by eating there. You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future.
- Silhouette 15y ago
  > You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future. Fortunately, the law in many countries does not permit such one-sided terms.
- Bud 15y ago
  You're dodging the question of whether it is a lie, which is unsurprising. I say again: Facebook lied. You didn't mention fraud, and I made no comment on fraud. I said they lied. They did. As for the clumsy smokescreen analogy about Subway, allow me to point out the obvious: Facebook made promises to users about how FACEBOOK would handle the personal property of said users. These are concrete, easily-definable promises...the kind which are easy to analyze to see if the promise was kept. It wasn't kept. Furthermore, as the FTC documented in plain English, there was a pattern of behavior, over and over again, that shows any reasonable person that not only did Facebook lie, they lied with prior intent. They never had any intention of keeping those promises and they broke them in the most egregious ways possible. By contrast, when Subway implies that customers can lose weight by eating certain foods there, they are, obviously, making no promises about how Subway will behave in the future, except an implied promise to be honest about how many calories are in their food (required by law), and to provide some lo-cal options (which they do). Really bad analogy, in every way.
  - anigbrowl 15y ago
    You're dodging the question of whether it is a lie, which is unsurprising. I say again: Facebook lied. Yeah, but lying to people isn't a crime. Defrauding them is, but lies and fraud are quite different things.
- _delirium 15y ago
  If Subway lied in an objectively verifiable manner (as opposed to on a subjective/gray-area claim), they'd also be breaking the law. For example, if they told their customers that a certain sandwich had 6 oz of meat, and it in fact had 5 oz of meat, that wouldn't be legal. If they told their customers that their credit card transaction data was not being resold, and in fact it was, that wouldn't be legal. Facebook is alleged to have done the latter, among other things.
- rooshdi 15y ago
  You're omitting the fact that Facebook has always stated they may change what they do with your information in the future. Yes, but Facebook disclosed personal information which people expected to remain private. Your Subway analogy doesn't cut it because Subway is trusted to disclose information, whereas Facebook is trusted to enclose it. Even if you accept it was a lie, it's not fraud. From the dictionary: "Fraud: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain." From the FTC report: "Facebook promised users that it would not share their personal information with advertisers. It did." If that isn't fraud, I don't know what is.
- rhizome 15y ago
  Facebook "lies" like Subway "lies" about losing weight by eating there. Jared Fogle did lose weight eating at Subway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle#Subway_campaign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle#Subway_campaign

chollida1 15y ago

No that is a lie. If I tell you I'll pick you up at 6 and have no intention of doing it, that's a lie. It's not illegal but it is a lie.

rooshdi 15y ago

Legality != Morality

sunchild 15y ago

What you said is incorrect. They do need to follow their privacy policies. It is a legal requirement. Your comment confuses basic contract legal principles with privacy rules. This isn't a contract matter; it's a matter of public policy. You can get started learning why here: http://business.ftc.gov/legal-resources/29/35 http://business.ftc.gov/legal-resources/29/35