6 ms·

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

withinboredom 4y ago
- egeozcan 4y ago
  That's nothing like the scale of migration happening from countries like Russia and Turkey. Turkey's lifeline for work-force has been the incoming migration from the east (as it's the bridge to Europe), I don't know how Russia can survive that.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  I think it’s just extremely untrue that the US is experiencing anything like the Russian brain drain (or indeed any net brain drain at all). The US does have a bunch of problems (eg the poorest people live terribly for such a rich country; political issues around polarisation, skilled immigration, etc) but I think they are basically insignificant when compared to Russia’s.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - stiltzkin 4y ago
    I disagree insignificant due to how the U.S. treated South American in the past, and there are more examples how extreme U.S. can be.
    - dan-robertson 4y ago
      I don’t know what you’re saying? Are you saying that the US treated South American[s?] poorly in the past therefore they are experiencing brain drain[1] which is significant compared to the brain drain Russia is experiencing? I think that’s patently false but I can’t work out how else to parse your sentence. [1] Note that, on net, the US is experiencing ‘brain accumulation’ (especially in science/tech) not brain drain, despite the slightly broken immigration system.
- pjc50 4y ago
  I don't think that's enough to counterbalance the flow in the other direction.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    I agree with this statement, but there is a larger amount of Americans leaving the US than you’d expect.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
spaceman_2020 4y ago
Russia was already always going to lose that "superpower" tag the moment the world shifted from hard industrial goods to consumer goods and technology. The first computer, the growth of the Japanese consumer goods industry, and Silicon Valley likely did as much to collapse the Soviet Union as anything else - they were simply out of the picture the moment we started creating software and portable stereos and personal computers.
- tazjin 4y ago
  Yeah, it's great how Javascript simply replaced industrial processes and our society no longer needs natural resources - only more stars on Github.
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    I never said Russia won't be relevant - it will always be massively relevant simply beacuse of its size, natural resources, and location. But hard resources are highly commoditized, and there are few nations with any sort of monopoly over them. The world will be better off with Russian resources, but if it can't access them, there are plenty of other alternatives that can be brought online with some investment.
  - krapp 4y ago
    Haven't you heard? We're essentially post-scarcity now. Everything is free except developer time. /s
  - bigodbiel 4y ago
    African continent is rich in natural resources, meanwhile Taiwan is just a volcanic island that produces 90% of the world's CPUs. The same applies to Russia.
  - tomjen3 4y ago
    I am sure there is some javascript in there, but its mostly a mixture of c/c++ and similar languages and rust to control industrial robots. For CNC and lathes its p-code. There is a surprising amount of camera vision, etc used in automation as well. Entire industrial processes were replaced with code and automation (read, more code) and robots. And of course robots are produced by factories with robots. Second, a lot more of what we are doing has been dematerialized. The entire factories that used to make film camera (as just one example) have essentially been replaced entirely with software, and the experience is better in every single way for customers.
saiya-jin 4y ago
That's beauty of being sociopathic dictator - you don't need to care about reality of those pesky humans that are under you, you can massage your massive ego with grand plans matching it. You have your billion dollar palaces and hundreds of billions stolen distributed throughout the world via thousands of cronies. If skilled intelligent people leave? Good, more loyal and easy to manipulate remain. People are dying in wars? Who cares if something is reached, like protecting motherland from made up boogeymen. Russian psyche relishes in suffering and misery and drinking into oblivion in vain attempt to forget about it. The worse it gets the more to blame that evil west for. This can be truly endless cycle that you can't break from outside. Really, this clash of civilizations is coming at a seemingly good time, while Russia is obviously weak. Obviously better would be to have no conflict at all, but that's not what Russia can offer to rest of the world, only arrogance, suffering, and primitive disfunctionality of its system. Since nobody willingly wants it, clash is inevitable.
- sharikous 4y ago
  > If skilled intelligent people leave? Good, more loyal and easy to manipulate remain That's true of most dictatorships but actually Putin always kept skilled professionals in his entourage (to the chagrin of the nationalistic bunch that despised this policy and those pesky liberals, often Jews). Now obviously this is changing but because of bigger issues. If/when Putin falls, if Russia remains, the people who will govern Russia will probably be the hyper nationalists that are much less intelligent than Putin and will be much worse for the population. Unfortunately this is going to be bad for those living there.
mrtksn 4y ago
In every country there are people who are nationalistic and think withint that framework and in every country there are people who want to be part of the global community of engineers/artists/scientists/professionals etc. and it is as if the nationalistic ones and their political fractions see the others as human resources that they want and have right to use in their ideological goals. In Iran, in Turkey, in the USA, in Hungary, in France, in South Africa, in Russia, in the UK there are people who all they want is a decent life for the work they do and there are people who want to make America Great again, show Greeks that Turks are the boss or show Turks that Greeks are the superior culture that one day will rise and take back Istanbul, show EU that they are the man, revive the French greatness, preserve British ways against EU, screw the liberals, make the Vegans cry, keep the women in line, stop Netflix making the youth gay, preserve the Islam in a specific way, preserve christian values etc. It's almost as if there are class wars everywhere but those in power fight their local class wars through external fights. That's why it almost feels like Brexiteers, MAGA, le Pen, Putin, the guy in Brazil or Philippines are all coordinated. It's bizarre and I don't see anything special about Russia TBH. It's just that they seem to be ahead of the west in the direction the world is headed. You know people who disapprove Putin and try to run away from Russia but unfortunately Putin continues to enjoy very high approval ratings[0]. [0] https://twitter.com/grkdirik/status/1572242924460556288/photo/1 https://twitter.com/grkdirik/status/1572242924460556288/phot...
- tromp 4y ago
  > It's bezire. Is that just a bezire spelling of bizarre?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  > It's bizarre and I don't see anything special about Russia TBH. It's just that they seem to be ahead of the west in the direction the world is headed. On the contrary, they seem to be a century behind. Even China told them they should try to find a diplomatic solution. India told them this is not the time for war. The world has other problems than an old man's ambitions.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

withinboredom 4y ago

egeozcan 4y ago
That's nothing like the scale of migration happening from countries like Russia and Turkey. Turkey's lifeline for work-force has been the incoming migration from the east (as it's the bridge to Europe), I don't know how Russia can survive that.
dan-robertson 4y ago
I think it’s just extremely untrue that the US is experiencing anything like the Russian brain drain (or indeed any net brain drain at all). The US does have a bunch of problems (eg the poorest people live terribly for such a rich country; political issues around polarisation, skilled immigration, etc) but I think they are basically insignificant when compared to Russia’s.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- stiltzkin 4y ago
  I disagree insignificant due to how the U.S. treated South American in the past, and there are more examples how extreme U.S. can be.
  - dan-robertson 4y ago
    I don’t know what you’re saying? Are you saying that the US treated South American[s?] poorly in the past therefore they are experiencing brain drain[1] which is significant compared to the brain drain Russia is experiencing? I think that’s patently false but I can’t work out how else to parse your sentence. [1] Note that, on net, the US is experiencing ‘brain accumulation’ (especially in science/tech) not brain drain, despite the slightly broken immigration system.
pjc50 4y ago
I don't think that's enough to counterbalance the flow in the other direction.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  I agree with this statement, but there is a larger amount of Americans leaving the US than you’d expect.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Russia was already always going to lose that "superpower" tag the moment the world shifted from hard industrial goods to consumer goods and technology. The first computer, the growth of the Japanese consumer goods industry, and Silicon Valley likely did as much to collapse the Soviet Union as anything else - they were simply out of the picture the moment we started creating software and portable stereos and personal computers.

tazjin 4y ago
Yeah, it's great how Javascript simply replaced industrial processes and our society no longer needs natural resources - only more stars on Github.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  I never said Russia won't be relevant - it will always be massively relevant simply beacuse of its size, natural resources, and location. But hard resources are highly commoditized, and there are few nations with any sort of monopoly over them. The world will be better off with Russian resources, but if it can't access them, there are plenty of other alternatives that can be brought online with some investment.
- krapp 4y ago
  Haven't you heard? We're essentially post-scarcity now. Everything is free except developer time. /s
- bigodbiel 4y ago
  African continent is rich in natural resources, meanwhile Taiwan is just a volcanic island that produces 90% of the world's CPUs. The same applies to Russia.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  I am sure there is some javascript in there, but its mostly a mixture of c/c++ and similar languages and rust to control industrial robots. For CNC and lathes its p-code. There is a surprising amount of camera vision, etc used in automation as well. Entire industrial processes were replaced with code and automation (read, more code) and robots. And of course robots are produced by factories with robots. Second, a lot more of what we are doing has been dematerialized. The entire factories that used to make film camera (as just one example) have essentially been replaced entirely with software, and the experience is better in every single way for customers.

saiya-jin 4y ago

That's beauty of being sociopathic dictator - you don't need to care about reality of those pesky humans that are under you, you can massage your massive ego with grand plans matching it. You have your billion dollar palaces and hundreds of billions stolen distributed throughout the world via thousands of cronies. If skilled intelligent people leave? Good, more loyal and easy to manipulate remain. People are dying in wars? Who cares if something is reached, like protecting motherland from made up boogeymen. Russian psyche relishes in suffering and misery and drinking into oblivion in vain attempt to forget about it. The worse it gets the more to blame that evil west for. This can be truly endless cycle that you can't break from outside. Really, this clash of civilizations is coming at a seemingly good time, while Russia is obviously weak. Obviously better would be to have no conflict at all, but that's not what Russia can offer to rest of the world, only arrogance, suffering, and primitive disfunctionality of its system. Since nobody willingly wants it, clash is inevitable.

sharikous 4y ago
> If skilled intelligent people leave? Good, more loyal and easy to manipulate remain That's true of most dictatorships but actually Putin always kept skilled professionals in his entourage (to the chagrin of the nationalistic bunch that despised this policy and those pesky liberals, often Jews). Now obviously this is changing but because of bigger issues. If/when Putin falls, if Russia remains, the people who will govern Russia will probably be the hyper nationalists that are much less intelligent than Putin and will be much worse for the population. Unfortunately this is going to be bad for those living there.

mrtksn 4y ago

In every country there are people who are nationalistic and think withint that framework and in every country there are people who want to be part of the global community of engineers/artists/scientists/professionals etc. and it is as if the nationalistic ones and their political fractions see the others as human resources that they want and have right to use in their ideological goals. In Iran, in Turkey, in the USA, in Hungary, in France, in South Africa, in Russia, in the UK there are people who all they want is a decent life for the work they do and there are people who want to make America Great again, show Greeks that Turks are the boss or show Turks that Greeks are the superior culture that one day will rise and take back Istanbul, show EU that they are the man, revive the French greatness, preserve British ways against EU, screw the liberals, make the Vegans cry, keep the women in line, stop Netflix making the youth gay, preserve the Islam in a specific way, preserve christian values etc. It's almost as if there are class wars everywhere but those in power fight their local class wars through external fights. That's why it almost feels like Brexiteers, MAGA, le Pen, Putin, the guy in Brazil or Philippines are all coordinated. It's bizarre and I don't see anything special about Russia TBH. It's just that they seem to be ahead of the west in the direction the world is headed. You know people who disapprove Putin and try to run away from Russia but unfortunately Putin continues to enjoy very high approval ratings[0]. [0] https://twitter.com/grkdirik/status/1572242924460556288/photo/1 https://twitter.com/grkdirik/status/1572242924460556288/phot...

tromp 4y ago
> It's bezire. Is that just a bezire spelling of bizarre?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
> It's bizarre and I don't see anything special about Russia TBH. It's just that they seem to be ahead of the west in the direction the world is headed. On the contrary, they seem to be a century behind. Even China told them they should try to find a diplomatic solution. India told them this is not the time for war. The world has other problems than an old man's ambitions.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]