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> Are you perfectly sure that people always start from "neutral" or "positive" attitude, even when contacted for the first time? Are you sure they don't? And

> Are you perfectly sure that people always start from "neutral" or "positive" attitude, even when contacted for the first time? Are you sure they don't? And how do you know? You can only know if you do it. That's the point. > but being polite, kind and open never guarantees people won't yell at you at first contact. Because that's not enough. You have to be understanding too and know when you are wrong too and when other people are right. Their behaviour is a completely different matter, until it is not borderline criminal, it should be considered as an expression of their feelings. People have them, not all of us are soulless robots like me. My doctor shouting to my face to take the f*king medicine, is probably trying to help me. Me doctor telling me kind words, knowing very well my lazy ass, is probably not giving a flying f*ck about me.

bayindirh 4y ago
> Are you sure they don't? I've seen conversations with or without me on either side of the spectrum, so it's not a given. > And how do you know? By writing neutral, simple, kind e-mails and messages to people. > You have to be understanding too and know when you are wrong too and when other people are right. Asking something you don't know to someone you never contacted before cannot contain the points you mentioned. If the conversations are ongoing, then things are different. It's important to be able to accept you're wrong and do it humbly. That's also very correct, but sending an email in the tone of "Hello, I'm wondering about this, can anybody point to me to the right direction, because I've failed to achieve it myself." Has neither right, nor wrong in it. Also, it can't contain anything more than appreciation of others time (and you show it by not spamming the person or the list). > Their behaviour is a completely different matter, until it is not borderline criminal, it should be considered as an expression of their feelings. Borderline criminality is not a defined international standard and can‘t be put on a scale homogenized throughout all cultures and conversation styles. It's also important to note that while the sending party is not entitled to replying party's kindness, replying party is not entitled to be tolerated for its tone of choice. This is why we have politeness and kindness as an international standard and aspired underpinning of conversations throughout this planet. One can show their emotions perfectly well without yelling or being rude, too, if wishes to chose that way. > My doctor shouting to my face to take the f*king medicine, is probably trying to help me. Then you should first ask yourself what you have done to your doctor to deserve this reaction, maybe? > Me doctor telling me kind words, knowing very well my lazy ass, is probably not giving a flying f*ck about me. No. Some people say strong words kindly. They can only tell "You'll just die if you continue doing this." with a calm tone, and you may lose sleep over it for a month. The choice is, of course, yours. So, as a result, we come to the conclusion of "If both parties act reasonably, then kindness and politeness is a natural outcome". Then as a corollary, we can ask that "If everyone behaving reasonably, why at least one of the parties is not polite?"
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    > by your standards. Which I try to form by querying as many people as possible from as many countries as possible, which my job requires on a daily basis. > I could be one that think that your insistence on writing that your messages are "kind and neutral" it's a sign of arrogance. Of course you can, by your standards. By my colleagues from many different nationalities and age groups does not share your sentiment. > You are not neutral, you think everyone is like you and what you find neutral and kind, is actually neutral and kind. No. I have no assumptions, no expectations. I just converse like me, and they converse like them. When I no longer want to deal with the other person/party. I just tell the reason and leave. Who am I to expect something from someone? God? > What you wrote is the equivalent of saying to a depressed person "just don't be sad". No. That was not my intention, if it sounded like that, I'm sorry about it. > And some people don't. And, that's OK. > That doesn't mean they are evil or what they say it's wrong. Did I ever told anything like that? I don't think so. I also don't think that way. So, this is a wrong assumption to start with. > And anyway, anyone will die eventually, so it's not really a threat if someone's has a death wish and the medicine was prescribed to alleviate that death wish. Just don't move the goalposts there, OK? > Welcome to planet Earth, among humans, that are in majority different from you and come in majority from a culture different from yours. I cherish this difference for a very long time, both in work and personal life. > You sound very young to me, from what you write and what you think. You're making a mistake here, but I'll leave the details out. > You lack empathy, which is problematic to me. Oh. Normally I'm not like that, but today's very stressful. I might have lost some of it today. Honestly, sorry. BTW, your tone is not very emphatic and kind either. You mentioned that you're a soulless robot. You sound like you're very far from it. > You actually believe that guilt trips are a good solution, when in fact they are much worse for mental health, especially for young people Actually no. I pay special attention to not guilt-trip people. This is very cruel. If I did it, again, honestly sorry about it. I need to look into it. I've mirrored some of your tone and reused your words intentionally in my conversation to mirror yourself to you, and if that hurt, you need to look into it. I'd rather hurt myself rather than other people tho. > You don't realize, probably, that manipulating people in doing something it's wrong. Again, I never, ever manipulate people. You're starting to put a lot of assumptions on top of me. This is disconcerting. I'm not telling you're doing the same, but you need to do some soul searching, seriously. > It is called argument from false premise. Actually, it's a question, where its answer might be completely different from what I guess, and this is OK. I'm not trying to be right, I'm trying to query. Honestly, I live read and answered your comment Q&A style, and arrived somewhere I never guessed. Some of the assumptions you put on me are borderline disturbing. I have taken some notes for myself, but you really need to reflect, too. I'm closing this conversation here, for now, because I'm out of free time and need to handle these stressful things I've mentioned. If you want to continue further, you can reach me via my info page. Take care.

bayindirh 4y ago

> Are you sure they don't? I've seen conversations with or without me on either side of the spectrum, so it's not a given. > And how do you know? By writing neutral, simple, kind e-mails and messages to people. > You have to be understanding too and know when you are wrong too and when other people are right. Asking something you don't know to someone you never contacted before cannot contain the points you mentioned. If the conversations are ongoing, then things are different. It's important to be able to accept you're wrong and do it humbly. That's also very correct, but sending an email in the tone of "Hello, I'm wondering about this, can anybody point to me to the right direction, because I've failed to achieve it myself." Has neither right, nor wrong in it. Also, it can't contain anything more than appreciation of others time (and you show it by not spamming the person or the list). > Their behaviour is a completely different matter, until it is not borderline criminal, it should be considered as an expression of their feelings. Borderline criminality is not a defined international standard and can‘t be put on a scale homogenized throughout all cultures and conversation styles. It's also important to note that while the sending party is not entitled to replying party's kindness, replying party is not entitled to be tolerated for its tone of choice. This is why we have politeness and kindness as an international standard and aspired underpinning of conversations throughout this planet. One can show their emotions perfectly well without yelling or being rude, too, if wishes to chose that way. > My doctor shouting to my face to take the f*king medicine, is probably trying to help me. Then you should first ask yourself what you have done to your doctor to deserve this reaction, maybe? > Me doctor telling me kind words, knowing very well my lazy ass, is probably not giving a flying f*ck about me. No. Some people say strong words kindly. They can only tell "You'll just die if you continue doing this." with a calm tone, and you may lose sleep over it for a month. The choice is, of course, yours. So, as a result, we come to the conclusion of "If both parties act reasonably, then kindness and politeness is a natural outcome". Then as a corollary, we can ask that "If everyone behaving reasonably, why at least one of the parties is not polite?"

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
- bayindirh 4y ago
  > by your standards. Which I try to form by querying as many people as possible from as many countries as possible, which my job requires on a daily basis. > I could be one that think that your insistence on writing that your messages are "kind and neutral" it's a sign of arrogance. Of course you can, by your standards. By my colleagues from many different nationalities and age groups does not share your sentiment. > You are not neutral, you think everyone is like you and what you find neutral and kind, is actually neutral and kind. No. I have no assumptions, no expectations. I just converse like me, and they converse like them. When I no longer want to deal with the other person/party. I just tell the reason and leave. Who am I to expect something from someone? God? > What you wrote is the equivalent of saying to a depressed person "just don't be sad". No. That was not my intention, if it sounded like that, I'm sorry about it. > And some people don't. And, that's OK. > That doesn't mean they are evil or what they say it's wrong. Did I ever told anything like that? I don't think so. I also don't think that way. So, this is a wrong assumption to start with. > And anyway, anyone will die eventually, so it's not really a threat if someone's has a death wish and the medicine was prescribed to alleviate that death wish. Just don't move the goalposts there, OK? > Welcome to planet Earth, among humans, that are in majority different from you and come in majority from a culture different from yours. I cherish this difference for a very long time, both in work and personal life. > You sound very young to me, from what you write and what you think. You're making a mistake here, but I'll leave the details out. > You lack empathy, which is problematic to me. Oh. Normally I'm not like that, but today's very stressful. I might have lost some of it today. Honestly, sorry. BTW, your tone is not very emphatic and kind either. You mentioned that you're a soulless robot. You sound like you're very far from it. > You actually believe that guilt trips are a good solution, when in fact they are much worse for mental health, especially for young people Actually no. I pay special attention to not guilt-trip people. This is very cruel. If I did it, again, honestly sorry about it. I need to look into it. I've mirrored some of your tone and reused your words intentionally in my conversation to mirror yourself to you, and if that hurt, you need to look into it. I'd rather hurt myself rather than other people tho. > You don't realize, probably, that manipulating people in doing something it's wrong. Again, I never, ever manipulate people. You're starting to put a lot of assumptions on top of me. This is disconcerting. I'm not telling you're doing the same, but you need to do some soul searching, seriously. > It is called argument from false premise. Actually, it's a question, where its answer might be completely different from what I guess, and this is OK. I'm not trying to be right, I'm trying to query. Honestly, I live read and answered your comment Q&A style, and arrived somewhere I never guessed. Some of the assumptions you put on me are borderline disturbing. I have taken some notes for myself, but you really need to reflect, too. I'm closing this conversation here, for now, because I'm out of free time and need to handle these stressful things I've mentioned. If you want to continue further, you can reach me via my info page. Take care.