6 ms·

What's your point? Are you claiming this is good, bad, or neither? What does any of this have to do with literally anything in the article?

mistrial9 4y ago
Where are the checks and balances here? How much capacity for tracking in real time is appropriate with private citizens in the USA during emergency response? What is the budget for ZoneHaven and its disclosed or otherwise partners ? public money in emergency response means accountability and lawful transparency, particularly if you want to run for President of the United States, Governor Newsom.
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  I don't know the answers to any of those questions, and you haven't shown me anything but rants. Not that this would detract from any argument you made (if you had made one), but you sound like a goddamn lunatic. And again: what does any of this have to do with the article?
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    public safety response is changing in the age of networking and GPS; new policy questions arise about legal and appropriate response between public officials and citizenry.
    - actually_a_dog 4y ago
      Again: what the actual fuck does this have to do with the article? GPS is not mentioned anywhere in there, nor in the linked article with the CHP statement. There's no evidence any of these road closures were implemented with anything other than old-fashioned roadblocks.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Do you have anything besides vague handwaving generalities without any specific concern, argument, or connection to the immediate story? Or are you just trying to market ZoneHaven with comically bad fake criticism (a “praising with faint damn” inversion of the cliché “damning with faint praise”)?
      - mistrial9 4y ago
        yes I do; this is not the forum for those details
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    > you haven't shown me anything but rants look at the website called ZoneHaven. If you live in California or the USA, maybe you should care about this.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      I've looked at it. Now, what is your concrete argument about it.
      - mistrial9 4y ago
        salawat (above) does a pretty good job of stating the case
  - salawat 4y ago
    Road to hell being paved with good intentions maybe? Seems odd to me to order people to shelter in place when toxic smoke is an issue (another PG&E special?). The ZoneHaven software seems to be evac management software split into an offering for first responders for planning evacuations, and an offering for the public providing a single place to look things up. From the screenshots, I'm seeing metrics on expected population and # of vehicles. I can only assume there is some dual use concern over the fact that as these datasets can be fused with carrier handset location data, it's possible to implement a geofencing solution with a bit of kitbashing. The previous mention of "a town in a county near Monterey having their Mayor told California Highway Patrol would keep their town's Interstate access cut off on a timescale of months" (no evidence offered or capable of being found on a cursory search, will check CalFIRE as recommended though), but assuming good faith, could be a valid reason for concern. If nothing else, it actually got me searching as to whether anything like that was at all precedented. It's one of those things that I guess you take for granted won't happen, but when you start thinking about it, gives you a shiver. Relevance to article can be inferred the poster finds application of this potential tool in such a hypothetical geofencing manner with no recourse or questioning disquieting. Which I can't necessarily blame them for; my "but no one would do that"/State overreach mental circuits have been getting increasingly Locked Out/Tagged Out over the last decade. The poster just might be kind of bad at communicating context, or over-relying on other people sharing mental context/priors for the meaning to fully come through. Incomplete communication maybe. Lunatic, I think not.
    - trs8080 4y ago
      Hate to be the one to break this to you, but that ship has long sailed. PATRIOT Act, NSA wiretaps, PRISM, Snowden, etc etc etc. For better or worse, if the US government wants to know where you are at any time, they'll just request cell tower records from your carrier and metadata from Facebook. They don't need to orchestrate some grand conspiracy to launder their actions through an evacuation management app.

mistrial9 4y ago

Where are the checks and balances here? How much capacity for tracking in real time is appropriate with private citizens in the USA during emergency response? What is the budget for ZoneHaven and its disclosed or otherwise partners ? public money in emergency response means accountability and lawful transparency, particularly if you want to run for President of the United States, Governor Newsom.

actually_a_dog 4y ago
I don't know the answers to any of those questions, and you haven't shown me anything but rants. Not that this would detract from any argument you made (if you had made one), but you sound like a goddamn lunatic. And again: what does any of this have to do with the article?
- mistrial9 4y ago
  public safety response is changing in the age of networking and GPS; new policy questions arise about legal and appropriate response between public officials and citizenry.
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    Again: what the actual fuck does this have to do with the article? GPS is not mentioned anywhere in there, nor in the linked article with the CHP statement. There's no evidence any of these road closures were implemented with anything other than old-fashioned roadblocks.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Do you have anything besides vague handwaving generalities without any specific concern, argument, or connection to the immediate story? Or are you just trying to market ZoneHaven with comically bad fake criticism (a “praising with faint damn” inversion of the cliché “damning with faint praise”)?
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      yes I do; this is not the forum for those details
- mistrial9 4y ago
  > you haven't shown me anything but rants look at the website called ZoneHaven. If you live in California or the USA, maybe you should care about this.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    I've looked at it. Now, what is your concrete argument about it.
    - mistrial9 4y ago
      salawat (above) does a pretty good job of stating the case
- salawat 4y ago
  Road to hell being paved with good intentions maybe? Seems odd to me to order people to shelter in place when toxic smoke is an issue (another PG&E special?). The ZoneHaven software seems to be evac management software split into an offering for first responders for planning evacuations, and an offering for the public providing a single place to look things up. From the screenshots, I'm seeing metrics on expected population and # of vehicles. I can only assume there is some dual use concern over the fact that as these datasets can be fused with carrier handset location data, it's possible to implement a geofencing solution with a bit of kitbashing. The previous mention of "a town in a county near Monterey having their Mayor told California Highway Patrol would keep their town's Interstate access cut off on a timescale of months" (no evidence offered or capable of being found on a cursory search, will check CalFIRE as recommended though), but assuming good faith, could be a valid reason for concern. If nothing else, it actually got me searching as to whether anything like that was at all precedented. It's one of those things that I guess you take for granted won't happen, but when you start thinking about it, gives you a shiver. Relevance to article can be inferred the poster finds application of this potential tool in such a hypothetical geofencing manner with no recourse or questioning disquieting. Which I can't necessarily blame them for; my "but no one would do that"/State overreach mental circuits have been getting increasingly Locked Out/Tagged Out over the last decade. The poster just might be kind of bad at communicating context, or over-relying on other people sharing mental context/priors for the meaning to fully come through. Incomplete communication maybe. Lunatic, I think not.
  - trs8080 4y ago
    Hate to be the one to break this to you, but that ship has long sailed. PATRIOT Act, NSA wiretaps, PRISM, Snowden, etc etc etc. For better or worse, if the US government wants to know where you are at any time, they'll just request cell tower records from your carrier and metadata from Facebook. They don't need to orchestrate some grand conspiracy to launder their actions through an evacuation management app.