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L5 is impossible by this definition: >“operating the vehicle on-road anywhere that a typically skilled human driver can reasonably operate a conventional vehic

L5 is impossible by this definition: >“operating the vehicle on-road anywhere that a typically skilled human driver can reasonably operate a conventional vehicle.” People who think otherwise must have spent their entire lives in metro areas with little to no weather. Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to.

Enginerrrd 4y ago
>L5 is impossible by this definition ... I 100% agree. There's no way AI will be able to solve this without being sentient. In my area, there is a large network of single lane dirt and gravel roads that people rely on for their daily existence. I'll be damn impressed when AI can figure out handling an oncoming truck and figure out when to pull forward to a wider spot, backup, stay put, where and how far to pull off into ditches or shoulders that won't give way or lead you to get stuck in the mud or ditch, and when to know if they can push the vegetation out of the way or not. And when to trust a cliff-side "shoulder" or not. These aren't rare exceptions either, that's daily existence for these people. And if you think the paved roads in the area are much better, you're gonna have a rough time. >People who think otherwise must have spent their entire lives in metro areas with little to no weather. Despite the slight hyperbole, I think this is absolutely correct. I see this very problem with many takes on this site in a wide variety of contexts. The same people have zero problem advocating for regulation without any exceptions that applies to contexts they simply have never thought about. At the risk of full-on ranting: They then complain when rural people object and do their best to invalidate the objections of rural people and insist they have the moral high ground.
TurningCanadian 4y ago
The car would have to solve problems like: "are those people on the side of the road behaving in a way that would suggest they might accidentally fall into the road". You or I might realize that a kid trying to treat the curb as a balance beam is entirely different than one walking in the middle of the sidewalk, but to do so takes some understanding that I'm not sure AI can learn by watching lots of driving scenarios.
ben_w 4y ago
> Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to. Why do you believe that? I don't see how any adverse weather requires more personhood than Stable Diffusion needs to paint — probably zero.
thfuran 4y ago
>Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to. The list of problems for which that sort of claim has been made but which have since been solved without anything resembling AGI is long enough that I'd tend to doubt new ones.

Enginerrrd 4y ago

>L5 is impossible by this definition ... I 100% agree. There's no way AI will be able to solve this without being sentient. In my area, there is a large network of single lane dirt and gravel roads that people rely on for their daily existence. I'll be damn impressed when AI can figure out handling an oncoming truck and figure out when to pull forward to a wider spot, backup, stay put, where and how far to pull off into ditches or shoulders that won't give way or lead you to get stuck in the mud or ditch, and when to know if they can push the vegetation out of the way or not. And when to trust a cliff-side "shoulder" or not. These aren't rare exceptions either, that's daily existence for these people. And if you think the paved roads in the area are much better, you're gonna have a rough time. >People who think otherwise must have spent their entire lives in metro areas with little to no weather. Despite the slight hyperbole, I think this is absolutely correct. I see this very problem with many takes on this site in a wide variety of contexts. The same people have zero problem advocating for regulation without any exceptions that applies to contexts they simply have never thought about. At the risk of full-on ranting: They then complain when rural people object and do their best to invalidate the objections of rural people and insist they have the moral high ground.

TurningCanadian 4y ago

The car would have to solve problems like: "are those people on the side of the road behaving in a way that would suggest they might accidentally fall into the road". You or I might realize that a kid trying to treat the curb as a balance beam is entirely different than one walking in the middle of the sidewalk, but to do so takes some understanding that I'm not sure AI can learn by watching lots of driving scenarios.

ben_w 4y ago

> Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to. Why do you believe that? I don't see how any adverse weather requires more personhood than Stable Diffusion needs to paint — probably zero.

thfuran 4y ago

>Moderate amounts of snow will certainly make L5 driving impossible until we have AI where reasonable people start thinking about giving civil rights to. The list of problems for which that sort of claim has been made but which have since been solved without anything resembling AGI is long enough that I'd tend to doubt new ones.