4 ms·

What does "based on European values and jurisdiction" refer to? I'd love to be pleasantly surprise, but this sounds like it's ripe for centralized censorship.

notright 4y ago
InTheArena 4y ago
Given the history of the 20th century, this kind of comment promoting European values and jurisdiction seems..... dicey. Companies ethical records, as shitty as they are have nothing on the mass destruction, genocide and stupidity of governments.
wumpus 4y ago
"Right to be forgotten" is an example of a European value.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  Um, bad example. It was a misconceived bit of legislation. There's no logic behind that claimed right. What happened to my right to remember what I choose? Why shouldn't I publish my memories on a website? Anyway, it's not a "European value", it's a piece of legislation, so it falls under the "European jurisdiction" category, not the "European values" category. That complying with "European values" is part of the project goals is unfortunate. Who decides what are European values? There's no Declaration of European Values. We don't all have the same values. There are just European laws, and then a whole bunch of opinions that not all Europeans agree about.
  - permo-w 4y ago
    people really, truly, go out of their way to criticise the EU. there are things about the EU that deserve criticism, but this is reaching to the point of deliberate misunderstanding. no one is saying that a person who wants to be forgotten cannot be talked about on your website, or that you have to somehow deliberately delete your memories of that person. you are not a corporation. the right to be forgotten is about the right for you to be forgotten by a corporation. the right for you to not be in their database anymore
    - wumpus 4y ago
      It could be fun to have a conversation about this topic, but when you start with calling the opinions of others a "deliberate misunderstanding", you've poisoned the well. Still, it's a good illustration that it's a somewhat unique European value. It's definitely not an American value.
      - permo-w 4y ago
        it’s such an overpowering misunderstanding, combined with a topic that people have very little objectivity over that it is not actually believable. do you also think you’re not allowed to remember people’s names without permission because of GDPR?
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      > the right for you to not be in their database anymore Let's switch that around: you're referring to their right not to be listed in my database any more. I don't see what difference it makes whether I'm incorporated or not; I'm not OK with the idea that certain information cannot be shared. Like, if the information is false, that's one thing; but a legal requirement that some true information must be hidden, that seems like pure badness.
      - permo-w 4y ago
        your argument is predicated on the assumption that there’s no difference between you and a large group of people. this is very clearly a false assumption
6510 4y ago
By US values profit is weighted heavily over anything else. Chinese and Russian values (or lack thereof) are focused on controlling the narrative. European values would contrast as rules (as opposed to vague guidelines) with legal ramification, a lot of open source software, an actual effort towards honesty (mileage may vary) and probably vogon poetry.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > Chinese and Russian values (or lack thereof) are focused on controlling the narrative I think it's reasonable to label China and Russia as control freaks, but the US and Europe aren't much different at this point too given the creepy focus on trying to shut down whatever they want by calling it "misinformation" and pressuring social media to comply.
  - 6510 4y ago
    But you do get your day in court.

notright 4y ago

InTheArena 4y ago

Given the history of the 20th century, this kind of comment promoting European values and jurisdiction seems..... dicey. Companies ethical records, as shitty as they are have nothing on the mass destruction, genocide and stupidity of governments.

wumpus 4y ago

"Right to be forgotten" is an example of a European value.

denton-scratch 4y ago
Um, bad example. It was a misconceived bit of legislation. There's no logic behind that claimed right. What happened to my right to remember what I choose? Why shouldn't I publish my memories on a website? Anyway, it's not a "European value", it's a piece of legislation, so it falls under the "European jurisdiction" category, not the "European values" category. That complying with "European values" is part of the project goals is unfortunate. Who decides what are European values? There's no Declaration of European Values. We don't all have the same values. There are just European laws, and then a whole bunch of opinions that not all Europeans agree about.
- permo-w 4y ago
  people really, truly, go out of their way to criticise the EU. there are things about the EU that deserve criticism, but this is reaching to the point of deliberate misunderstanding. no one is saying that a person who wants to be forgotten cannot be talked about on your website, or that you have to somehow deliberately delete your memories of that person. you are not a corporation. the right to be forgotten is about the right for you to be forgotten by a corporation. the right for you to not be in their database anymore
  - wumpus 4y ago
    It could be fun to have a conversation about this topic, but when you start with calling the opinions of others a "deliberate misunderstanding", you've poisoned the well. Still, it's a good illustration that it's a somewhat unique European value. It's definitely not an American value.
    - permo-w 4y ago
      it’s such an overpowering misunderstanding, combined with a topic that people have very little objectivity over that it is not actually believable. do you also think you’re not allowed to remember people’s names without permission because of GDPR?
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    > the right for you to not be in their database anymore Let's switch that around: you're referring to their right not to be listed in my database any more. I don't see what difference it makes whether I'm incorporated or not; I'm not OK with the idea that certain information cannot be shared. Like, if the information is false, that's one thing; but a legal requirement that some true information must be hidden, that seems like pure badness.
    - permo-w 4y ago
      your argument is predicated on the assumption that there’s no difference between you and a large group of people. this is very clearly a false assumption

6510 4y ago

By US values profit is weighted heavily over anything else. Chinese and Russian values (or lack thereof) are focused on controlling the narrative. European values would contrast as rules (as opposed to vague guidelines) with legal ramification, a lot of open source software, an actual effort towards honesty (mileage may vary) and probably vogon poetry.

logicalmonster 4y ago
> Chinese and Russian values (or lack thereof) are focused on controlling the narrative I think it's reasonable to label China and Russia as control freaks, but the US and Europe aren't much different at this point too given the creepy focus on trying to shut down whatever they want by calling it "misinformation" and pressuring social media to comply.
- 6510 4y ago
  But you do get your day in court.