6 ms·

Still can't choose to "never combine" taskbar buttons, like in previous Windows versions. That's a major usability flaw.

by whyoh 4y ago

svnpenn 4y ago
Ive used "When taskbar is full" for years. "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern, as you'd be forced to scroll your taskbar with too many windows. First, would you really want that? and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?
- antisthenes 4y ago
  Ah yes, the typical "you must be using this new awful feature wrong" response. Why don't you give the OP some respect and don't assume they don't know what they want?
- neals 4y ago
  yes, many more
- gsich 4y ago
  No scrolling
- bslqn 4y ago
  I don’t want to have to click twice to bring up a window from the taskbar, ever. It’s not that hard to understand.
  - wilsonnb3 4y ago
    To be pedantic, it doesn't require two clicks. You can hover and then click on the one you want.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
    I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want. Just one click in the whole process, though I do understand if you see the half second or so wait after hovering as bad as having to click.
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      >> I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want. I prefer "Never combine" so that I don't have to spend any time hovering and waiting.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cygx 4y ago
  I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. My taskbar fits 28 windows before scrolling happens. It gets a bit unwieldy after the first 12, and eventually, titles will no longer be displayed. do you really need more than that? Yes.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern For me anything other than "Never combine" is an anti-pattern. Every application instance should have its own taskbar button that I can identify by looking at it. >> if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that? I have a huge ultra-wide monitor. I can easily get 20+ non-collapsed window buttons on the taskbar. Combined taskbar window buttons waste my time and impair my productivity.
  - munk-a 4y ago
    I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users. I've found combining application instances to be quite useful since I use a lot of applications with no internal instance switching (PuTTY is the biggest offender here) but to each their own. This setting being a setting just felt like a good idea.
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      >> I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users. That's why I prefaced it with 'for me'. Other people can use works best for them. I know what works best for me.
      - munk-a 4y ago
        In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern. So I think in my comment above I mostly just automatically omitted the "for me" when reading your original remark.
        thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
        >> In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern. I agree. svnpenn's comment characterized "Never combine" as an anti-pattern, but it is my preferred configuration. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to just say that "Never combine" is not an anti-pattern since many users prefer it for various reasons.
- rishav_sharan 4y ago
  People using a feature differently from how you would, doesn't makes it an anti pattern. > First, would you really want that? Yep. I was forced to buy StartAllBack, just to be able to use "Never Combine" in Windows 11 > and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that? Because people have different ways of working. I have 32 gb RAM in my laptop and at any time I have dozens of windows open. I have dozens of browser tabs open at the same time as well. When I am at work, I open each mail that I want to look at later, in a window by double clicking it in Outlook. And then later on, resolving each one by one.
- wvenable 4y ago
  If I have 2 file explorer windows open, why wouldn't I want to 2 icons so I can quickly switch between them? Combining only makes sense if you have an unmanageable number of Windows open. But then I'm probably the ultimate outlier: I have my Win10 taskbar configured Win95 style -- showing the full window title and one tab per window. I do not know why the "dock" style of desktop window navigation is so popular.
  - svnpenn 4y ago
    "When taskbar is full" is the same as "never combine", unless the taskbar is full
    - wvenable 4y ago
      When is it full? With never combine the buttons just get smaller. I guess it eventually hits a limit and scrolls but I've not experienced that.
- tom_ 4y ago
  1, Slack; 2, Teams; 3, Outlook; 4, Perforce; 5, Visual Studio; 6, Emacs; 7, Command prompt; 8, Firefox... Ran out already before even getting to File Locator Pro and File Explorer! - and this is the stuff I know I'll almost certainly be having open pretty much every day. I'll be running additional programs on top of these. I usually have more than 1 command prompt, and more than 1 Firefox window. Additionally, Visual Studio isn't decorative. I will actually be using it to work on a program of some kind. And when I run that program under the debugger, the program will need space in the task bar for its icon too.
causi 4y ago
I still wonder why "auto-expand taskbar when taskbar is full" isn't an option. Like isn't that the logical setup? If only one window or program is open, don't even have a taskbar. If twelve windows are open, have a taskbar tall enough for two rows of windows.
seritools 4y ago
Yup, it is sadly still unusable without https://startallback.com/ https://startallback.com/ :(
- westcort 4y ago
  Got it! This is great for my productivity. So unfortunate that Microsoft didn’t even offer users an option…
sorwin 4y ago
This is the only major issue holding me back from upgrading. When you run 3-5 visual studios, couple of RDP connections, etc, having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster. I had to rollback simply because after a while, it felt slow and hard to manage multiple windows... Who knew people like to run the same app more than once :|
- belltaco 4y ago
  I use StartAllBack for this, well for the $5 and has a free trial.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  > having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster I sympathize with people that feel like this makes a big difference in productivity but you would have to be swapping between windows an absurd amount of times in a day for this to make an actual difference in productivity. It takes (rough estimate) about an extra 200ms to hover the task bar icon and select the window you want. So you lose a minute of time for every 300 times you do it. Doesn't add up to much unless you are switching windows hundreds or thousands of times a day. Not to mention the fact that selecting icons from your taskbar isn't even the most efficient way of switching windows, which would be win+number or alt+tab.
  - tom_ 4y ago
    Have you had somebody time you doing this?
  - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
    Do you by any chance happen to be a Gnome developer?
    - wilsonnb3 4y ago
      Nope, not even a gnome enjoyer. More of an XFCE or KDE person.
  - johnklos 4y ago
Night_Thastus 4y ago
I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but there's a "feature" where if you hover over an open application on the taskbar, it will not only show its own open windows, but also a weird "combined" view of that application and whatever else happens to be nearby. So you might have both Notepad and Outlook open. Hover over Notepad, and you don't just see a preview of the open Notepad window, you also see this stupid "Notepad + Outlook" window. It's completely useless and so frustrating. Sadly it's impossible to get rid of.
UberFly 4y ago
I also always use StartAllBack to fix a lot, but the fact that Microsoft is this stubborn and can't get why this is a usability problem for many actually pisses me off. How hard can it be to reinstate this officially? </tantrum>
akira2501 4y ago
They love hiding things and then calling "productivity." The system tray is one that has always historically annoyed me.. randomly hiding users icons inside of a menu that you have to know exists before you go to use it. Talking people through that on the phone was always a nightmare. And now.. "taskbar overflow!" Even more hidden context to trip my users up and generate support calls. Thanks!

Still can't choose to "never combine" taskbar buttons, like in previous Windows versions. That's a major usability flaw.

by whyoh 4y ago

Still can't choose to "never combine" taskbar buttons, like in previous Windows versions. That's a major usability flaw.

svnpenn 4y ago

Ive used "When taskbar is full" for years. "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern, as you'd be forced to scroll your taskbar with too many windows. First, would you really want that? and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

antisthenes 4y ago
Ah yes, the typical "you must be using this new awful feature wrong" response. Why don't you give the OP some respect and don't assume they don't know what they want?
neals 4y ago
yes, many more
gsich 4y ago
No scrolling
bslqn 4y ago
I don’t want to have to click twice to bring up a window from the taskbar, ever. It’s not that hard to understand.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  To be pedantic, it doesn't require two clicks. You can hover and then click on the one you want.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
  I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want. Just one click in the whole process, though I do understand if you see the half second or so wait after hovering as bad as having to click.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want. I prefer "Never combine" so that I don't have to spend any time hovering and waiting.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cygx 4y ago
I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. My taskbar fits 28 windows before scrolling happens. It gets a bit unwieldy after the first 12, and eventually, titles will no longer be displayed. do you really need more than that? Yes.
thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern For me anything other than "Never combine" is an anti-pattern. Every application instance should have its own taskbar button that I can identify by looking at it. >> if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that? I have a huge ultra-wide monitor. I can easily get 20+ non-collapsed window buttons on the taskbar. Combined taskbar window buttons waste my time and impair my productivity.
- munk-a 4y ago
  I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users. I've found combining application instances to be quite useful since I use a lot of applications with no internal instance switching (PuTTY is the biggest offender here) but to each their own. This setting being a setting just felt like a good idea.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users. That's why I prefaced it with 'for me'. Other people can use works best for them. I know what works best for me.
    - munk-a 4y ago
      In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern. So I think in my comment above I mostly just automatically omitted the "for me" when reading your original remark.
      - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
        >> In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern. I agree. svnpenn's comment characterized "Never combine" as an anti-pattern, but it is my preferred configuration. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to just say that "Never combine" is not an anti-pattern since many users prefer it for various reasons.
rishav_sharan 4y ago
People using a feature differently from how you would, doesn't makes it an anti pattern. > First, would you really want that? Yep. I was forced to buy StartAllBack, just to be able to use "Never Combine" in Windows 11 > and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that? Because people have different ways of working. I have 32 gb RAM in my laptop and at any time I have dozens of windows open. I have dozens of browser tabs open at the same time as well. When I am at work, I open each mail that I want to look at later, in a window by double clicking it in Outlook. And then later on, resolving each one by one.
wvenable 4y ago
If I have 2 file explorer windows open, why wouldn't I want to 2 icons so I can quickly switch between them? Combining only makes sense if you have an unmanageable number of Windows open. But then I'm probably the ultimate outlier: I have my Win10 taskbar configured Win95 style -- showing the full window title and one tab per window. I do not know why the "dock" style of desktop window navigation is so popular.
- svnpenn 4y ago
  "When taskbar is full" is the same as "never combine", unless the taskbar is full
  - wvenable 4y ago
    When is it full? With never combine the buttons just get smaller. I guess it eventually hits a limit and scrolls but I've not experienced that.
tom_ 4y ago
1, Slack; 2, Teams; 3, Outlook; 4, Perforce; 5, Visual Studio; 6, Emacs; 7, Command prompt; 8, Firefox... Ran out already before even getting to File Locator Pro and File Explorer! - and this is the stuff I know I'll almost certainly be having open pretty much every day. I'll be running additional programs on top of these. I usually have more than 1 command prompt, and more than 1 Firefox window. Additionally, Visual Studio isn't decorative. I will actually be using it to work on a program of some kind. And when I run that program under the debugger, the program will need space in the task bar for its icon too.

causi 4y ago

I still wonder why "auto-expand taskbar when taskbar is full" isn't an option. Like isn't that the logical setup? If only one window or program is open, don't even have a taskbar. If twelve windows are open, have a taskbar tall enough for two rows of windows.

seritools 4y ago

Yup, it is sadly still unusable without https://startallback.com/ https://startallback.com/ :(

westcort 4y ago
Got it! This is great for my productivity. So unfortunate that Microsoft didn’t even offer users an option…

sorwin 4y ago

This is the only major issue holding me back from upgrading. When you run 3-5 visual studios, couple of RDP connections, etc, having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster. I had to rollback simply because after a while, it felt slow and hard to manage multiple windows... Who knew people like to run the same app more than once :|

belltaco 4y ago
I use StartAllBack for this, well for the $5 and has a free trial.
wilsonnb3 4y ago
> having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster I sympathize with people that feel like this makes a big difference in productivity but you would have to be swapping between windows an absurd amount of times in a day for this to make an actual difference in productivity. It takes (rough estimate) about an extra 200ms to hover the task bar icon and select the window you want. So you lose a minute of time for every 300 times you do it. Doesn't add up to much unless you are switching windows hundreds or thousands of times a day. Not to mention the fact that selecting icons from your taskbar isn't even the most efficient way of switching windows, which would be win+number or alt+tab.
- tom_ 4y ago
  Have you had somebody time you doing this?
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  Do you by any chance happen to be a Gnome developer?
  - wilsonnb3 4y ago
    Nope, not even a gnome enjoyer. More of an XFCE or KDE person.
- johnklos 4y ago

Night_Thastus 4y ago

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but there's a "feature" where if you hover over an open application on the taskbar, it will not only show its own open windows, but also a weird "combined" view of that application and whatever else happens to be nearby. So you might have both Notepad and Outlook open. Hover over Notepad, and you don't just see a preview of the open Notepad window, you also see this stupid "Notepad + Outlook" window. It's completely useless and so frustrating. Sadly it's impossible to get rid of.

UberFly 4y ago

I also always use StartAllBack to fix a lot, but the fact that Microsoft is this stubborn and can't get why this is a usability problem for many actually pisses me off. How hard can it be to reinstate this officially? </tantrum>

akira2501 4y ago

They love hiding things and then calling "productivity." The system tray is one that has always historically annoyed me.. randomly hiding users icons inside of a menu that you have to know exists before you go to use it. Talking people through that on the phone was always a nightmare. And now.. "taskbar overflow!" Even more hidden context to trip my users up and generate support calls. Thanks!