11 ms·

You can't make this shit up

40 points by anyfactor 4y ago

mtmail 4y ago
Summary as the title is a bit clickbait: Senior executive thought fake beach background in video meeting means employee wasn't at home. Enacts new policy employees can only work from home.
- anyfactor 4y ago
  I don't post on HN often. Should I have modify the title to be less clickbaitey or be true to the post? I thought about changing it to give more context.
  - kerblang 4y ago
    Personally I would only call it "clickbait" if it didn't fulfill expectations. Instead it was an entertaining story. HN would nitpick the second coming of christ until he apologized for it and agreed to start all over again.
  - beardyw 4y ago
    Most criticism comes from changing or replacing the title but I think adding something in brackets at the end would be ok.
  - dang 4y ago
    The site guidelines cover this: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) In this case the title was linkbait so it would be correct to change it. When changing it, the goal is to represent the article accurately and neutrally (i.e. not putting a spin on it, which would be editorializing). The best way to do this is to find a representative phrase from the article itself which has those qualities—if you can find one. I took a quick look at that Reddit post and couldn't find one. That might be a sign that this article is too sensationalistic/shallow to make a good HN submission.
    - anyfactor 4y ago
      My first response from dang! Thank you, I will be more cautious next time.
- bko 4y ago
  There was a viral video of some PMs working from a pool. On one hand, it doesn't really matter where you work from as long as you get your work done. But on the other hand, I find it hard to believe that someone can have focus in an environment like that. It might be unpopular opinion online, but I think its entirely reasonable to put some restrictions on where you can work from home, if only to allay the feelings of colleagues. Ideally everyone would have a work environment where there is a set standardized output of X that needs to be produced by each employee in which case how it gets done is irrelevant. But in modern work environment, there is a level of trust and autonomy employees are granted. There are dark patterns people can use to minimize the amount of work you're doing without drawing too much attention. And sure, you can think cynically that you should do the minimum amount of work required, because your employer will pay you the minimum amount they have to. But that just sounds overly adversarial and could create a toxic environment and resentment amount colleagues. Not to mention its terrible for you in the long run. https://twitter.com/coldhealing/status/1533093790503821315?t=HXXrvQwqYZE9FMYo4IfzWQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/coldhealing/status/1533093790503821315?t...
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    I would be a little worried about somebody working from inside the pool (laptop may get dunked). By the pool -- seems like a bit of a fuzzy thing. I can definitely imagine working from a deck could be quite relaxing which could help with focus. And some decks happen to have pools built in. I can't imagine a good manager would micromanage, like, distance to the pool or something like that. We've accepted programmers working from coffee shops for ages, and that environment seems much more distracting. I dunno. In the end, the metric that matters is, does the work get done? If you can get it done by the pool, fair enough, right?
  - arcdigital 4y ago
    What do you mean by "an environment like that"? It was just them outside by a pool...it's not like they were at a Vegas pool party... Different kinds of people work well in various environments. I sit outside and work all the time, often by the pool. It's actually very relaxing and I can get a lot done when I have my headphones in... Sure, sometimes it gets distracting...and that's when I go back to my desk.
trasz 4y ago
[flagged]
- kleer001 4y ago
  Blaming human nature on capitalism? Is this something that magically doesn't happen in top down managed economies? Care to point us to an non-capitalistic economy where this type of irrational behaviour doesn't happen?
  - db48x 4y ago
    It is the popular fad to be ignorant of the rampant mismanagement that is always prevalent in Communist countries. People should read the books written by people who defected from the Soviet Union to get an idea of just how bad it can get. “The Liberators: my life in the Soviet Army” by Viktor Suvorov is a good one. And it can be read online: <https://archive.org/details/liberatorsmylife0000suvo https://archive.org/details/liberatorsmylife0000suvo>
    - trasz 4y ago
      >Communist https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma “Not capitalist” does not mean “communist”. There are plenty other systems out there. And even for what many folks call communism you’ll find examples of much better efficiency - China for example has been developing at speed never seen in nominally capitalist countries.
      - ps901 4y ago
        China is in fact a capitalist country, despite the "Communist" in it's party's name.
        db48x 4y ago
        Partly. Most of the Chinese people have no private property rights.
zinekeller 4y ago
While the story itself is amusing, I actually focused on the thread where they've discussed tax implications that the company may bourne due to working in another city/state. I'm not familiar with US tax law, is this really true that income taxes can vary even between cities? I understand that it varies between states, but surely it doesn't extend that there are differences between two cities in the same state?
- daveslash 4y ago
  American/Californian checking in here. IANAL and not an accountant. That said: I find it a highly dubious claim that there are differences in individual income taxes between cities. I've lived across the US and I've never even heard of that. Different sales tax, sure, but not income tax. Employer taxes on the other hand.... who knows?! There very well might be local ordinances that cities levy on employers based of the number of employees or some such thing. Maybe, I have no idea - but the point is: income taxes no, employer taxes, maybe. Would be interested if anyone else knows more? Edit: City taxes are the reason that "The Strip" in Las Vegas is technically not in Las Vegas. What we think of as Vegas is really in "unincorporated Clark county". I'm sure employees all pay the same State and Federal income tax, but the business don't pay city taxes. I don't know how much that's based off their business location vs. their employees location.
  - hollywood_court 4y ago
    There are certainly differences. Most cities have no income tax at all. Some do. I personally had never lived in a city or county with an income tax until I moved to my present location ~12 years ago.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    There are City income taxes in lots places around the US: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/comptroller/initiatives/us-cities-that-levy-earnings-taxes.cfm https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/comptrolle... It's really not that uncommon. There are also special districts for things like sewer or water service which can also levy income tax.
thenoblesunfish 4y ago
You absolutely can make this shit up, and people have been doing it since the dawn of the internet.
- mikestew 4y ago
  That was my first thought as soon as I saw the domain. "'Can't make this shit up?' How many times a day does that exact thing happen on reddit?" (And then everyone in the store applauded as soon as I vocalized my thoughts.) It really could use a better title.
z9znz 4y ago
The obvious answer to this policy is to take a photo of the inside of your home, family photos and all, and use that as your zoom background.
anm89 4y ago
You could make up a better title though.
- anyfactor 4y ago
  Lesson learned. I was confused about the title policy. The post has been flagged. I will try to do better next time.
  - anm89 4y ago
    sorry if that was overly harsh, but yeah descriptive titles are always a positive!
    - anyfactor 4y ago
      Haha no way it was harsh, my good friend. Thank you.
salawat 4y ago
Learned the hard way that being an employer in the U.S. is basically opting in to being an extension of a social surveillance/control mechanism in the sense that it incurs/induces an elevated level of control over how you can conduct your life. The larger you get the more control you are accountable to implement. Basically anything that would be shrugged off by the average citizen as either B.S. or "none of your damned business" is basically shoehorned into being handled by employers. Up to and including surveilling the physical location of H-1B workers. My eyes were opened wide once I started to look into how the modern corporation is utilized in the U.S.

40 points by anyfactor 4y ago

Summary as the title is a bit clickbait: Senior executive thought fake beach background in video meeting means employee wasn't at home. Enacts new policy employees can only work from home.

anyfactor 4y ago
I don't post on HN often. Should I have modify the title to be less clickbaitey or be true to the post? I thought about changing it to give more context.
- kerblang 4y ago
  Personally I would only call it "clickbait" if it didn't fulfill expectations. Instead it was an entertaining story. HN would nitpick the second coming of christ until he apologized for it and agreed to start all over again.
- beardyw 4y ago
  Most criticism comes from changing or replacing the title but I think adding something in brackets at the end would be ok.
- dang 4y ago
  The site guidelines cover this: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) In this case the title was linkbait so it would be correct to change it. When changing it, the goal is to represent the article accurately and neutrally (i.e. not putting a spin on it, which would be editorializing). The best way to do this is to find a representative phrase from the article itself which has those qualities—if you can find one. I took a quick look at that Reddit post and couldn't find one. That might be a sign that this article is too sensationalistic/shallow to make a good HN submission.
  - anyfactor 4y ago
    My first response from dang! Thank you, I will be more cautious next time.
bko 4y ago
There was a viral video of some PMs working from a pool. On one hand, it doesn't really matter where you work from as long as you get your work done. But on the other hand, I find it hard to believe that someone can have focus in an environment like that. It might be unpopular opinion online, but I think its entirely reasonable to put some restrictions on where you can work from home, if only to allay the feelings of colleagues. Ideally everyone would have a work environment where there is a set standardized output of X that needs to be produced by each employee in which case how it gets done is irrelevant. But in modern work environment, there is a level of trust and autonomy employees are granted. There are dark patterns people can use to minimize the amount of work you're doing without drawing too much attention. And sure, you can think cynically that you should do the minimum amount of work required, because your employer will pay you the minimum amount they have to. But that just sounds overly adversarial and could create a toxic environment and resentment amount colleagues. Not to mention its terrible for you in the long run. https://twitter.com/coldhealing/status/1533093790503821315?t=HXXrvQwqYZE9FMYo4IfzWQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/coldhealing/status/1533093790503821315?t...
- bee_rider 4y ago
  I would be a little worried about somebody working from inside the pool (laptop may get dunked). By the pool -- seems like a bit of a fuzzy thing. I can definitely imagine working from a deck could be quite relaxing which could help with focus. And some decks happen to have pools built in. I can't imagine a good manager would micromanage, like, distance to the pool or something like that. We've accepted programmers working from coffee shops for ages, and that environment seems much more distracting. I dunno. In the end, the metric that matters is, does the work get done? If you can get it done by the pool, fair enough, right?
- arcdigital 4y ago
  What do you mean by "an environment like that"? It was just them outside by a pool...it's not like they were at a Vegas pool party... Different kinds of people work well in various environments. I sit outside and work all the time, often by the pool. It's actually very relaxing and I can get a lot done when I have my headphones in... Sure, sometimes it gets distracting...and that's when I go back to my desk.

trasz 4y ago

[flagged]

kleer001 4y ago
Blaming human nature on capitalism? Is this something that magically doesn't happen in top down managed economies? Care to point us to an non-capitalistic economy where this type of irrational behaviour doesn't happen?
- db48x 4y ago
  It is the popular fad to be ignorant of the rampant mismanagement that is always prevalent in Communist countries. People should read the books written by people who defected from the Soviet Union to get an idea of just how bad it can get. “The Liberators: my life in the Soviet Army” by Viktor Suvorov is a good one. And it can be read online: <https://archive.org/details/liberatorsmylife0000suvo https://archive.org/details/liberatorsmylife0000suvo>
  - trasz 4y ago
    >Communist https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma “Not capitalist” does not mean “communist”. There are plenty other systems out there. And even for what many folks call communism you’ll find examples of much better efficiency - China for example has been developing at speed never seen in nominally capitalist countries.
    - ps901 4y ago
      China is in fact a capitalist country, despite the "Communist" in it's party's name.
      - db48x 4y ago
        Partly. Most of the Chinese people have no private property rights.

zinekeller 4y ago

While the story itself is amusing, I actually focused on the thread where they've discussed tax implications that the company may bourne due to working in another city/state. I'm not familiar with US tax law, is this really true that income taxes can vary even between cities? I understand that it varies between states, but surely it doesn't extend that there are differences between two cities in the same state?

daveslash 4y ago
American/Californian checking in here. IANAL and not an accountant. That said: I find it a highly dubious claim that there are differences in individual income taxes between cities. I've lived across the US and I've never even heard of that. Different sales tax, sure, but not income tax. Employer taxes on the other hand.... who knows?! There very well might be local ordinances that cities levy on employers based of the number of employees or some such thing. Maybe, I have no idea - but the point is: income taxes no, employer taxes, maybe. Would be interested if anyone else knows more? Edit: City taxes are the reason that "The Strip" in Las Vegas is technically not in Las Vegas. What we think of as Vegas is really in "unincorporated Clark county". I'm sure employees all pay the same State and Federal income tax, but the business don't pay city taxes. I don't know how much that's based off their business location vs. their employees location.
- hollywood_court 4y ago
  There are certainly differences. Most cities have no income tax at all. Some do. I personally had never lived in a city or county with an income tax until I moved to my present location ~12 years ago.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  There are City income taxes in lots places around the US: https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/comptroller/initiatives/us-cities-that-levy-earnings-taxes.cfm https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/comptrolle... It's really not that uncommon. There are also special districts for things like sewer or water service which can also levy income tax.

thenoblesunfish 4y ago

You absolutely can make this shit up, and people have been doing it since the dawn of the internet.

mikestew 4y ago
That was my first thought as soon as I saw the domain. "'Can't make this shit up?' How many times a day does that exact thing happen on reddit?" (And then everyone in the store applauded as soon as I vocalized my thoughts.) It really could use a better title.

z9znz 4y ago

The obvious answer to this policy is to take a photo of the inside of your home, family photos and all, and use that as your zoom background.

anm89 4y ago

You could make up a better title though.

anyfactor 4y ago
Lesson learned. I was confused about the title policy. The post has been flagged. I will try to do better next time.
- anm89 4y ago
  sorry if that was overly harsh, but yeah descriptive titles are always a positive!
  - anyfactor 4y ago
    Haha no way it was harsh, my good friend. Thank you.

salawat 4y ago

Learned the hard way that being an employer in the U.S. is basically opting in to being an extension of a social surveillance/control mechanism in the sense that it incurs/induces an elevated level of control over how you can conduct your life. The larger you get the more control you are accountable to implement. Basically anything that would be shrugged off by the average citizen as either B.S. or "none of your damned business" is basically shoehorned into being handled by employers. Up to and including surveilling the physical location of H-1B workers. My eyes were opened wide once I started to look into how the modern corporation is utilized in the U.S.