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Does GTK4 finally implement its own C coded unicode text shaper (or at least, a roman script text shaper)? No I don't want that horrible c++ diareha which is ha

Does GTK4 finally implement its own C coded unicode text shaper (or at least, a roman script text shaper)? No I don't want that horrible c++ diareha which is harfbuzz.

chris_wot 4y ago
What is the problem with harfbuzz? we use it extensively in LibreOffice, works great!
- nerdponx 4y ago
  I love that LibreOffice lets me use the full range of OpenType features in fonts. Do I have Harfbuzz to thank for that? But please let me edit the sample text in the OpenType features modal, so I can actually see the effects of my changes without leaving the entire Font window :)
  - chris_wot 4y ago
    Without Harfbuzz, I doubt it would have been as easy to implement.
  - audidude 4y ago
    Perhaps GTK 4.8 is the GTK for you. https://blog.gtk.org/2022/09/19/inside-the-gtk-font-chooser/ https://blog.gtk.org/2022/09/19/inside-the-gtk-font-chooser/
    - nerdponx 4y ago
      Based on the font chooser, absolutely. Thanks for this link. ...but did they fix the file picker yet?
colejohnson66 4y ago
What's wrong with Harfbuzz?
audidude 4y ago
Harfbuzz exposes a C API, why would you need to use C++? Additionally, it works extremely well with GTK 4 via Pango and you can often interoperate between the two layers if you even need to touch a hb_face_t/etc. In fact, the only time I had to mess with Harfbuzz was when integrating GPU-rendered glyphs via Behdad's GLyphy shaders.
- sylware 4y ago
  It has a C API, but it is written using c++. A long time ago, I did a build of GTK3, to remove the c++ dependency, I did an implemention of this C API in C, only for roman scripts though. I bet this C API was "obsolescence planned" and if I ever need GTK again (unlikely), I will code again a C implementation for roman scripts. There is an alternative from IBM, ICU, it was properly coded in C, but it was switched to toxic c++.
  - audidude 4y ago
    Sounds like C++ has hurt you quite a bit. I mean, I don't use it, and I've been writing C for a solid 25 years, but Behdad is one of the best engineers I've ever met in my life. So I definitely don't share your opinion of the code or the quality.
    - sylware 4y ago
      c++ is toxic for humanity because of its grotestquely and absurdely complex and massive syntax and its compilers. This is not a matter of opinion, this is an absolute unquestionable truth. Carefull, I am not saying plain and simple C is better: it is only orders of magnitude less worse as there is already way too much in its syntax. Some would call that, the "most reasonable compromise".
      - audidude 4y ago
        Cool story.
        4y ago

Does GTK4 finally implement its own C coded unicode text shaper (or at least, a roman script text shaper)? No I don't want that horrible c++ diareha which is harfbuzz.

chris_wot 4y ago

What is the problem with harfbuzz? we use it extensively in LibreOffice, works great!

nerdponx 4y ago
I love that LibreOffice lets me use the full range of OpenType features in fonts. Do I have Harfbuzz to thank for that? But please let me edit the sample text in the OpenType features modal, so I can actually see the effects of my changes without leaving the entire Font window :)
- chris_wot 4y ago
  Without Harfbuzz, I doubt it would have been as easy to implement.
- audidude 4y ago
  Perhaps GTK 4.8 is the GTK for you. https://blog.gtk.org/2022/09/19/inside-the-gtk-font-chooser/ https://blog.gtk.org/2022/09/19/inside-the-gtk-font-chooser/
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    Based on the font chooser, absolutely. Thanks for this link. ...but did they fix the file picker yet?

colejohnson66 4y ago

What's wrong with Harfbuzz?

audidude 4y ago

Harfbuzz exposes a C API, why would you need to use C++? Additionally, it works extremely well with GTK 4 via Pango and you can often interoperate between the two layers if you even need to touch a hb_face_t/etc. In fact, the only time I had to mess with Harfbuzz was when integrating GPU-rendered glyphs via Behdad's GLyphy shaders.

sylware 4y ago
It has a C API, but it is written using c++. A long time ago, I did a build of GTK3, to remove the c++ dependency, I did an implemention of this C API in C, only for roman scripts though. I bet this C API was "obsolescence planned" and if I ever need GTK again (unlikely), I will code again a C implementation for roman scripts. There is an alternative from IBM, ICU, it was properly coded in C, but it was switched to toxic c++.
- audidude 4y ago
  Sounds like C++ has hurt you quite a bit. I mean, I don't use it, and I've been writing C for a solid 25 years, but Behdad is one of the best engineers I've ever met in my life. So I definitely don't share your opinion of the code or the quality.
  - sylware 4y ago
    c++ is toxic for humanity because of its grotestquely and absurdely complex and massive syntax and its compilers. This is not a matter of opinion, this is an absolute unquestionable truth. Carefull, I am not saying plain and simple C is better: it is only orders of magnitude less worse as there is already way too much in its syntax. Some would call that, the "most reasonable compromise".
    - audidude 4y ago
      Cool story.
      - 4y ago