3 ms·

"IS AVAILABLE". Teaching in Russian is also available in Ukraine. The problem that law is solving is that Ukrainian isn't available everywhere(!). It's not abou

"IS AVAILABLE". Teaching in Russian is also available in Ukraine. The problem that law is solving is that Ukrainian isn't available everywhere(!). It's not about optional courses, it's minimal standards. Nobody is preventing schools from teaching russian (as a subject). But Ukrainian is the state language. Are you saying that minimal standards in Ukraine should be education in russian at the cost of ukrainian?

gdy 4y ago
"Teaching in Russian is also available in Ukraine." Not according to the law. It simply had 3 years of grace period, starting from 2019. [1] "members of national minorities who do not speak an official EU language — Byelorussians, Gagauzes, Jews, and, significantly, Russians — will only be able to study at the secondary school level their language as a subject." [0] "But Ukrainian is the state language." And Finland has two state languages. [2] "Are you saying that minimal standards in Ukraine should be education in russian" No, it's what you are saying when you state that Ukraine has "the same level of laws that you get in Western countries, including Finland". [0] https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/?pdf=CDL-AD(2019)032-e https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/?pdf=CDL-AD(20... [1] https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/parliament-passes-ukrainian-language-bill.html https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/parliament-passes-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland#Ethnic_minorities_and_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland#Ethnic...
- jevgeni 4y ago
  Literally in the sources you quote: > Classes taught in ethnic minority languages will be allowed at Ukrainian-language schools, and some subjects at Ukrainian-language universities can be taught in English or one of the official languages of the European Union. And yes, maybe the Ukrainian language that has been repressed by russia since 19th century at the latest needs a bit of an affirmative action.
  - gdy 4y ago
    Again, you say 'literally' and then leave out essential part of the quote: "Contrary to the minority languages which are EU official languages, Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish are granted no exemption for the purposes of the law." That's dishonest. "maybe the Ukrainian language that ... needs a bit of an affirmative action" Maybe, but then discrimination of minority languages doesn't allow you to claim that the Ukrainian policy is on the same level as in Western countries.
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      Of course it does. Or is Russian, Belarusian or Yiddish an official language somewhere in the EU?
      - gdy 4y ago
        Plenty of languages that have fewer percentage of speakers than Russian in the Ukraine are official languages in the EU. And I'm not aware of any civilized country deliberately targeting particular minority languages for discrimination like the Ukraine did in regard to Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish. And you do know why there are few Yiddish speakers in the Europe now, right? Yiddish might have been an official language somewhere in the EU if not for mass extermination of Jews. In which Ukrainian heroes took part [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Holoc...

gdy 4y ago

"Teaching in Russian is also available in Ukraine." Not according to the law. It simply had 3 years of grace period, starting from 2019. [1] "members of national minorities who do not speak an official EU language — Byelorussians, Gagauzes, Jews, and, significantly, Russians — will only be able to study at the secondary school level their language as a subject." [0] "But Ukrainian is the state language." And Finland has two state languages. [2] "Are you saying that minimal standards in Ukraine should be education in russian" No, it's what you are saying when you state that Ukraine has "the same level of laws that you get in Western countries, including Finland". [0] https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/?pdf=CDL-AD(2019)032-e https://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/documents/?pdf=CDL-AD(20... [1] https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/parliament-passes-ukrainian-language-bill.html https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/parliament-passes-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland#Ethnic_minorities_and_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Finland#Ethnic...

jevgeni 4y ago
Literally in the sources you quote: > Classes taught in ethnic minority languages will be allowed at Ukrainian-language schools, and some subjects at Ukrainian-language universities can be taught in English or one of the official languages of the European Union. And yes, maybe the Ukrainian language that has been repressed by russia since 19th century at the latest needs a bit of an affirmative action.
- gdy 4y ago
  Again, you say 'literally' and then leave out essential part of the quote: "Contrary to the minority languages which are EU official languages, Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish are granted no exemption for the purposes of the law." That's dishonest. "maybe the Ukrainian language that ... needs a bit of an affirmative action" Maybe, but then discrimination of minority languages doesn't allow you to claim that the Ukrainian policy is on the same level as in Western countries.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    Of course it does. Or is Russian, Belarusian or Yiddish an official language somewhere in the EU?
    - gdy 4y ago
      Plenty of languages that have fewer percentage of speakers than Russian in the Ukraine are official languages in the EU. And I'm not aware of any civilized country deliberately targeting particular minority languages for discrimination like the Ukraine did in regard to Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish. And you do know why there are few Yiddish speakers in the Europe now, right? Yiddish might have been an official language somewhere in the EU if not for mass extermination of Jews. In which Ukrainian heroes took part [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#Holoc...