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> if the US dropped charges Well, I guess he's just trapped by the practical problems created by his peculiar combination of personal morality and cowardice.

by _jal 4y ago

> if the US dropped charges Well, I guess he's just trapped by the practical problems created by his peculiar combination of personal morality and cowardice. If you claim whistle-blowing is justified by the exposed crimes and then run, whoever owns wherever you end up now owns you. If they happen to be worse... eh, you made your choice, now live with it. He made his choice.

mc32 4y ago
I think Snowden is a victim of (naive?) idealism. Idealism often has very short term focus and isn't very strategic. This led him into the trap of realpolitik where the notion of purity isn't a concern. So he saw the US engaging in bad things, in illegal activity --without taking into account how the rest of the world works and how much worse things outside can be. Sometimes whistleblowing can bring change for the good, but it's not a guarantee --in this case, "the powers that be" have too much vested in this organ and will seek to minimize this inconvenient problem he represents.
knodi123 4y ago
We shouldn't listen to any whistleblower unless they are willing to martyr themselves? That seems like an unfair standard.
- _jal 4y ago
  Don't put words in my mouth. I listen to everything he says, there's a lot to learn. And nowhere am I suggesting he martyr himself. Here's a hint, if you're having difficulty: I'm mostly just describing his plight. I'm not approving of the NSA, FBI, Russia, or anyone else. I do admire him in many respects. I'm just not terribly sympathetic. For as much time as he spent on the immediate escape, it seems like he spent none on, "...and then what?" Kind of an important detail for an aspiring man of international mystery. Instead, he's turned himself into Putin's tchotchke, sitting on a shelf unless and until he somehow becomes situationally useful.
  - knodi123 4y ago
    > Don't put words in my mouth. ... nowhere am I suggesting he martyr himself. I'm not tryin to put words in your mouth. Perhaps think more about the ideas that the words coming out of your mouth convey? You said "If you claim whistle-blowing is justified by the exposed crimes and then run". Sounds like you think he ought not to have run. Even though the president literally discussed applying the death penalty to him. That's why I thought you were suggesting he ought to have martyred himself. > For as much time as he spent on the immediate escape, it seems like he spent none on, "...and then what?" Jesus christ, you described yourself as unsympathetic, and I guess I can't disagree. But "aspiring man of international mystery"? Don't put words in his mouth. If the things he says about his motivations are true, your mischaracterization is grossly offensive.

by _jal 4y ago

mc32 4y ago

I think Snowden is a victim of (naive?) idealism. Idealism often has very short term focus and isn't very strategic. This led him into the trap of realpolitik where the notion of purity isn't a concern. So he saw the US engaging in bad things, in illegal activity --without taking into account how the rest of the world works and how much worse things outside can be. Sometimes whistleblowing can bring change for the good, but it's not a guarantee --in this case, "the powers that be" have too much vested in this organ and will seek to minimize this inconvenient problem he represents.

knodi123 4y ago

We shouldn't listen to any whistleblower unless they are willing to martyr themselves? That seems like an unfair standard.

_jal 4y ago
Don't put words in my mouth. I listen to everything he says, there's a lot to learn. And nowhere am I suggesting he martyr himself. Here's a hint, if you're having difficulty: I'm mostly just describing his plight. I'm not approving of the NSA, FBI, Russia, or anyone else. I do admire him in many respects. I'm just not terribly sympathetic. For as much time as he spent on the immediate escape, it seems like he spent none on, "...and then what?" Kind of an important detail for an aspiring man of international mystery. Instead, he's turned himself into Putin's tchotchke, sitting on a shelf unless and until he somehow becomes situationally useful.
- knodi123 4y ago
  > Don't put words in my mouth. ... nowhere am I suggesting he martyr himself. I'm not tryin to put words in your mouth. Perhaps think more about the ideas that the words coming out of your mouth convey? You said "If you claim whistle-blowing is justified by the exposed crimes and then run". Sounds like you think he ought not to have run. Even though the president literally discussed applying the death penalty to him. That's why I thought you were suggesting he ought to have martyred himself. > For as much time as he spent on the immediate escape, it seems like he spent none on, "...and then what?" Jesus christ, you described yourself as unsympathetic, and I guess I can't disagree. But "aspiring man of international mystery"? Don't put words in his mouth. If the things he says about his motivations are true, your mischaracterization is grossly offensive.