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Yes, the amount of hate for Snowden and Assange is dismaying. These men sacrificed their lives to expose the crimes of one of - if not the most -powerful organ

by blub 4y ago

Yes, the amount of hate for Snowden and Assange is dismaying. These men sacrificed their lives to expose the crimes of one of - if not the most -powerful organizations on Earth. And people nitpick that they’re not criticizing the other most powerful entities too. Basically they’re criticizing them for not committing suicide in the name of a people which were impotent of unwilling to do anything with the revelations provided. I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss, never mind reveal any compromising information on anyone.

HyperSane 4y ago
Assange has been a Russian asset for a long time. Snowden is a spokesman for Putin now. What a coincidence.
- not1ofU 4y ago
  Source?
  - HyperSane 4y ago
    https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-that-assange-has-ties-to-russian-intelligence/ https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-t... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...
belltaco 4y ago
>I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss Has Snowden talked about Putin's war on Ukraine yet?
- briantakita 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dzikimarian 4y ago
    - briantakita 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - not1ofU 4y ago
      - dzikimarian 4y ago
- HyperSane 4y ago
  He very vocally defended Russia while they were building up to the invasion and then became completely silent after they invaded. I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden doesn't actually have the password to his Twitter account and can only post Putin approved tweets.
  - scottLobster 4y ago
    A lot of people, including establishment "experts" didn't think Russia was going to invade and called US estimations war-mongering. Also it's probably not a good idea to antagonize the people holding you hostage, he's one hospital trip away from falling out a window. Snowden is clearly trying to be as effective as he can in spreading his message, given his conditions. He's already sacrificed any semblance of a normal/comfortable life, saying he's full of shit just because he doesn't effectively commit suicide strikes me as disingenuous criticism by those who already want to see him dead. Honestly the only legitimate criticism of Snowden I've read so far is that he may have handed over intelligence as part of his asylum bargain that got operatives killed. But, probably due to the nature of said operatives/operations and the agencies they may/may not have worked for, it's impossible to know from the outside how true that is. It's not like the intelligence community has a history of honesty with the general public, or won't lie to get what it wants. CIA/NSA/Military Intelligence Services seem to step way over the line every 10-20 years or so and some new scandal gets leaked, and we have a big debate over whether the leakers were traitors or patriots. This is just another wave in the signal unless we fundamentally reform the system.
    - HyperSane 4y ago
      "A lot of people, including establishment "experts" didn't think Russia was going to invade and called US estimations war-mongering." And they were all proven definitively wrong, the only war mongerer is Putin, who just escalated his invasion of Ukraine by ordering a partial mobilization. If you think that the GRU doesn't have the password for Snowden's twitter then you are very gullible.
- blub 4y ago
  Why should he? He’s not Jesus or the world police.
  - humanistbot 4y ago
    Because he denied it was going to happen and expressed skepticism at Western intel reports about the invasion. Then he was silent after the invasion.
    - blub 4y ago
      Yes, he was wrong, can happen. It’s also unrelated to his claims about US agencies and US democracy. Why must he be a saint? He did more than most will do their entire lives already.
      - renewiltord 4y ago
        Personally, the only people I believe are those who are always right. For instance, Kernighan and Ritchie talk about the 'register' keyword in C. All very well, but I heard that one day Brian Kernighan said he'd brew a pot of coffee and just forgot. I'm not sure I can trust him so I never use that keyword. Too risky. Maybe if they would annotate who did which section. I bet Ritchie would never have done this.
        humanistbot 4y ago
        I believe people who admit when they are wrong, instead of refusing to talk about their past errors in judgement.
        renewiltord 4y ago
        Right. Fuck that register keyword.
      - belltaco 4y ago
        >It’s also unrelated to his claims about US agencies and US democracy Definitely related, he used the run up to the war to dunk on US agencies' predictions saying they were war mongering. Not even two weeks before the war he tweeted: "There is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war." Can you explain how US media pushed Putin to war in the run up to the war rather than just reporting very credible intel from US agencies? Which appears to be a crime in Snowden's eyes.
- cronix 4y ago
  Seeing as how he's stuck there with nowhere else to go except prison in the US, and owes what little freedom he has to them, I think it's fairly obvious and smart to not speak ill of your host, especially considering what they're capable of. I'm quite sure he would have a LOT to say about it were he not stuck there. Yes, we know, if it were you you'd be condemning them to their face.
  - slg 4y ago
    > he's stuck there with nowhere else to go except prison in the US, Meanwhile Chelsea Manning is walking the streets of the US as a free person. Why do people pretend that Snowden's only option was and is to live in Russia, a country that is diametrically opposed to everything he ostensibly stands for?
    - Chris2048 4y ago
      Chelsea Manning got a presidential pardon - what was Snowden's option?
      - 20after4 4y ago
        And many years of torture in solitary confinement.
      - slg 4y ago
        Snowden could have argued in court that what he did was not a crime or asked for leniency due to the importance of what he did as Manning had done. This eventually worked for Manning and she is now free. However he removed any chance of leniency by leaving the country before the story dropped. Therefore Snowden seems likely to live the rest of his life in exile under an authoritarian regime. It seems like his decision was wrong from both an ethical and practical perspective in comparison to what Manning did.
        Chris2048 4y ago
        So his option was to roll the dice and hope it turned out like CM? Doesn't sound like that was the wrong choice - you are assuming he would have been pardoned. Arguably even CM didn't get leniency (from the courts) - the president overrode the court. > his decision was wrong from both an ethical Why ethical?
- mc32 4y ago
  Has social justice movement W also talked about the bad things in countries X, Y and Z that are worse than things T, U & V in the US?
- honkler 4y ago
  - hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
    >Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
colpabar 4y ago
I love HN, but at the end of the day, it's a reddit-clone for a silicon valley VC fund. No one is here to start a revolution, and in fact, a lot of users probably make a living doing things that snowden sympathizers (I don't mean that as a slight, I am one) would claim are ruining the world.
- haskellandchill 4y ago
  I'm here to start a revolution, and I don't think Assange or Snowden are any use for it. They did a good thing once and then have acted very unfavorably. The revolution does not need cheerleaders, celebrities, or charlatans.
  - colpabar 4y ago
roflyear 4y ago
Hate, or just pointing out that these people, while I think they did the right thing (and they probably did too), certainly did not act in the best interests of the US? That is a motivation I'm sure they carry after being chased around the world for a decade or two.
- not1ofU 4y ago
  the needs of the many... blah blah
Lendal 4y ago
I can disapprove of Snowden in general, and also see that he has a point in this article. The article is not political. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally blamed but the photo he chose is of the sitting president, a Democrat. The only problem I have with the article is our current internal politics work against reform and he did not address this, nor did he suggest any specific reforms he would recommend. For someone with such a decent understanding of the CIA, why didn't he? Does he just like to set fires and watch them burn?
jononomo 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by blub 4y ago

HyperSane 4y ago

Assange has been a Russian asset for a long time. Snowden is a spokesman for Putin now. What a coincidence.

not1ofU 4y ago
Source?
- HyperSane 4y ago
  https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-that-assange-has-ties-to-russian-intelligence/ https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-t... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...

belltaco 4y ago

>I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss Has Snowden talked about Putin's war on Ukraine yet?

briantakita 4y ago
[flagged]
- dzikimarian 4y ago
  - briantakita 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - not1ofU 4y ago
    - dzikimarian 4y ago
HyperSane 4y ago
He very vocally defended Russia while they were building up to the invasion and then became completely silent after they invaded. I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden doesn't actually have the password to his Twitter account and can only post Putin approved tweets.
- scottLobster 4y ago
  A lot of people, including establishment "experts" didn't think Russia was going to invade and called US estimations war-mongering. Also it's probably not a good idea to antagonize the people holding you hostage, he's one hospital trip away from falling out a window. Snowden is clearly trying to be as effective as he can in spreading his message, given his conditions. He's already sacrificed any semblance of a normal/comfortable life, saying he's full of shit just because he doesn't effectively commit suicide strikes me as disingenuous criticism by those who already want to see him dead. Honestly the only legitimate criticism of Snowden I've read so far is that he may have handed over intelligence as part of his asylum bargain that got operatives killed. But, probably due to the nature of said operatives/operations and the agencies they may/may not have worked for, it's impossible to know from the outside how true that is. It's not like the intelligence community has a history of honesty with the general public, or won't lie to get what it wants. CIA/NSA/Military Intelligence Services seem to step way over the line every 10-20 years or so and some new scandal gets leaked, and we have a big debate over whether the leakers were traitors or patriots. This is just another wave in the signal unless we fundamentally reform the system.
  - HyperSane 4y ago
    "A lot of people, including establishment "experts" didn't think Russia was going to invade and called US estimations war-mongering." And they were all proven definitively wrong, the only war mongerer is Putin, who just escalated his invasion of Ukraine by ordering a partial mobilization. If you think that the GRU doesn't have the password for Snowden's twitter then you are very gullible.
blub 4y ago
Why should he? He’s not Jesus or the world police.
- humanistbot 4y ago
  Because he denied it was going to happen and expressed skepticism at Western intel reports about the invasion. Then he was silent after the invasion.
  - blub 4y ago
    Yes, he was wrong, can happen. It’s also unrelated to his claims about US agencies and US democracy. Why must he be a saint? He did more than most will do their entire lives already.
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      Personally, the only people I believe are those who are always right. For instance, Kernighan and Ritchie talk about the 'register' keyword in C. All very well, but I heard that one day Brian Kernighan said he'd brew a pot of coffee and just forgot. I'm not sure I can trust him so I never use that keyword. Too risky. Maybe if they would annotate who did which section. I bet Ritchie would never have done this.
      - humanistbot 4y ago
        I believe people who admit when they are wrong, instead of refusing to talk about their past errors in judgement.
        renewiltord 4y ago
        Right. Fuck that register keyword.
    - belltaco 4y ago
      >It’s also unrelated to his claims about US agencies and US democracy Definitely related, he used the run up to the war to dunk on US agencies' predictions saying they were war mongering. Not even two weeks before the war he tweeted: "There is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war." Can you explain how US media pushed Putin to war in the run up to the war rather than just reporting very credible intel from US agencies? Which appears to be a crime in Snowden's eyes.
cronix 4y ago
Seeing as how he's stuck there with nowhere else to go except prison in the US, and owes what little freedom he has to them, I think it's fairly obvious and smart to not speak ill of your host, especially considering what they're capable of. I'm quite sure he would have a LOT to say about it were he not stuck there. Yes, we know, if it were you you'd be condemning them to their face.
- slg 4y ago
  > he's stuck there with nowhere else to go except prison in the US, Meanwhile Chelsea Manning is walking the streets of the US as a free person. Why do people pretend that Snowden's only option was and is to live in Russia, a country that is diametrically opposed to everything he ostensibly stands for?
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    Chelsea Manning got a presidential pardon - what was Snowden's option?
    - 20after4 4y ago
      And many years of torture in solitary confinement.
    - slg 4y ago
      Snowden could have argued in court that what he did was not a crime or asked for leniency due to the importance of what he did as Manning had done. This eventually worked for Manning and she is now free. However he removed any chance of leniency by leaving the country before the story dropped. Therefore Snowden seems likely to live the rest of his life in exile under an authoritarian regime. It seems like his decision was wrong from both an ethical and practical perspective in comparison to what Manning did.
      - Chris2048 4y ago
        So his option was to roll the dice and hope it turned out like CM? Doesn't sound like that was the wrong choice - you are assuming he would have been pardoned. Arguably even CM didn't get leniency (from the courts) - the president overrode the court. > his decision was wrong from both an ethical Why ethical?
mc32 4y ago
Has social justice movement W also talked about the bad things in countries X, Y and Z that are worse than things T, U & V in the US?
honkler 4y ago
- hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
  >Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

colpabar 4y ago

I love HN, but at the end of the day, it's a reddit-clone for a silicon valley VC fund. No one is here to start a revolution, and in fact, a lot of users probably make a living doing things that snowden sympathizers (I don't mean that as a slight, I am one) would claim are ruining the world.

haskellandchill 4y ago
I'm here to start a revolution, and I don't think Assange or Snowden are any use for it. They did a good thing once and then have acted very unfavorably. The revolution does not need cheerleaders, celebrities, or charlatans.
- colpabar 4y ago

roflyear 4y ago

Hate, or just pointing out that these people, while I think they did the right thing (and they probably did too), certainly did not act in the best interests of the US? That is a motivation I'm sure they carry after being chased around the world for a decade or two.

not1ofU 4y ago
the needs of the many... blah blah

Lendal 4y ago

I can disapprove of Snowden in general, and also see that he has a point in this article. The article is not political. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally blamed but the photo he chose is of the sitting president, a Democrat. The only problem I have with the article is our current internal politics work against reform and he did not address this, nor did he suggest any specific reforms he would recommend. For someone with such a decent understanding of the CIA, why didn't he? Does he just like to set fires and watch them burn?

jononomo 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]