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Has everyone on Hacker News lost their minds? I come here to read and sometimes participate in rational discussions. These comments are some of the lowest eff

by jnovek 4y ago

Has everyone on Hacker News lost their minds? I come here to read and sometimes participate in rational discussions. These comments are some of the lowest effort, least rigorous, paranoid bullshit I’ve ever seen on this site. We’re a step above Facebook comments on NPR articles, here. Partisanship, viciousness and lazy conspiracy theories are not a good look for this site.

adultSwim 4y ago
We are witnessing information warfare unfold in real time. Every government and many companies are trying to exert pressure. People are responding by picking sides. It's a dangerous situation.
blub 4y ago
Yes, the amount of hate for Snowden and Assange is dismaying. These men sacrificed their lives to expose the crimes of one of - if not the most -powerful organizations on Earth. And people nitpick that they’re not criticizing the other most powerful entities too. Basically they’re criticizing them for not committing suicide in the name of a people which were impotent of unwilling to do anything with the revelations provided. I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss, never mind reveal any compromising information on anyone.
- HyperSane 4y ago
  Assange has been a Russian asset for a long time. Snowden is a spokesman for Putin now. What a coincidence.
  - not1ofU 4y ago
    Source?
    - HyperSane 4y ago
      https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-that-assange-has-ties-to-russian-intelligence/ https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-t... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...
- belltaco 4y ago
  >I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss Has Snowden talked about Putin's war on Ukraine yet?
  - briantakita 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dzikimarian 4y ago
      - briantakita 4y ago
        [flagged]
        not1ofU 4y ago
        dzikimarian 4y ago
  - HyperSane 4y ago
    He very vocally defended Russia while they were building up to the invasion and then became completely silent after they invaded. I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden doesn't actually have the password to his Twitter account and can only post Putin approved tweets.
    - scottLobster 4y ago
      A lot of people, including establishment "experts" didn't think Russia was going to invade and called US estimations war-mongering. Also it's probably not a good idea to antagonize the people holding you hostage, he's one hospital trip away from falling out a window. Snowden is clearly trying to be as effective as he can in spreading his message, given his conditions. He's already sacrificed any semblance of a normal/comfortable life, saying he's full of shit just because he doesn't effectively commit suicide strikes me as disingenuous criticism by those who already want to see him dead. Honestly the only legitimate criticism of Snowden I've read so far is that he may have handed over intelligence as part of his asylum bargain that got operatives killed. But, probably due to the nature of said operatives/operations and the agencies they may/may not have worked for, it's impossible to know from the outside how true that is. It's not like the intelligence community has a history of honesty with the general public, or won't lie to get what it wants. CIA/NSA/Military Intelligence Services seem to step way over the line every 10-20 years or so and some new scandal gets leaked, and we have a big debate over whether the leakers were traitors or patriots. This is just another wave in the signal unless we fundamentally reform the system.
- colpabar 4y ago
  I love HN, but at the end of the day, it's a reddit-clone for a silicon valley VC fund. No one is here to start a revolution, and in fact, a lot of users probably make a living doing things that snowden sympathizers (I don't mean that as a slight, I am one) would claim are ruining the world.
  - haskellandchill 4y ago
    I'm here to start a revolution, and I don't think Assange or Snowden are any use for it. They did a good thing once and then have acted very unfavorably. The revolution does not need cheerleaders, celebrities, or charlatans.
    - colpabar 4y ago
- roflyear 4y ago
  Hate, or just pointing out that these people, while I think they did the right thing (and they probably did too), certainly did not act in the best interests of the US? That is a motivation I'm sure they carry after being chased around the world for a decade or two.
  - not1ofU 4y ago
    the needs of the many... blah blah
- Lendal 4y ago
  I can disapprove of Snowden in general, and also see that he has a point in this article. The article is not political. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally blamed but the photo he chose is of the sitting president, a Democrat. The only problem I have with the article is our current internal politics work against reform and he did not address this, nor did he suggest any specific reforms he would recommend. For someone with such a decent understanding of the CIA, why didn't he? Does he just like to set fires and watch them burn?
- jononomo 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
roflyear 4y ago
ssnistfajen 4y ago
Or perhaps we don't need HN exceptionalism? Intelligence isn't translated universally onto all subject matters. Just because someone is good at writing code doesn't make them well-suited to understand any non-programming topics to have a well-informed or rational discussion about it. There's no reason why HN should have a higher quality discussion on these subjects than some generic subreddit or FB comment sections. Of course I wish the discussion quality could be higher, but I understand why it isn't.
- CodeMage 4y ago
  > Or perhaps we don't need HN exceptionalism? It's not exceptionalism to lament the downfall of the tradition of carefully cultivated discourse. I still remember when this community used to be different, and this site was the one I went to first. > There's no reason why HN should have a higher quality discussion than some generic subreddit or FB comment sections. Yes, there is. HN uses to have a higher quality discussion because it was carefully moderated both by the community itself and the moderators. Sadly, it seems that all communities deteriorate eventually.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tootifrooti 4y ago
    .
    - blantonl 4y ago
      Don't read political threads either. One should have come to the conclusion long ago that no platform is "enlightened enough" to shy away from the basic human instincts of "us vs them."
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - ssnistfajen 4y ago
paxys 4y ago
Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September. Happens to every forum. HN is well past its "hidden niche community" period and is now attracting the same crowd as Reddit, Facebook and the like.
throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
briantakita 4y ago
The stakes are high & war is in the air...Expect more of this to devolve everywhere.
isx726552 4y ago
Snowden is absolutely a hero for what he did to expose US surveillance. It is also right for people to be suspicious of anything he says at the moment given his current situation. There’s no contradiction between the two. As I wrote elsewhere in the comments on this story, the atrocities of the CIA are sadly well known. There’s nothing new here. The beginning of Snowden’s post is a surprisingly poor take on Biden’s recent speech, reposting the same zoomed-in image with the red background, ignoring the additional context[0][1] and comparing the presentation to the Nazis. Although he does call it “unintentional”, he still chooses to amplify the same take as the American right-wing even though it’s been a while since the speech and people have mostly moved on. Snowden also does little to actually address the content of what Biden said regarding new and immediate threats to the US, choosing instead to focus on existing problems with the CIA which, while terrible, are not new and not unknown. He claims this is “consideration of [Biden’s] premises” but I think that’s a stretch to say the least. In short, I think people are right to be critical of this essay and suspicious of Snowden’s motives in this specific case, without taking anything away from his previous actions. [0] https://imgur.com/a/m7h2PtO https://imgur.com/a/m7h2PtO [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/02/trump-biden-pennsylvania-rallies-00054582 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/02/trump-biden-pennsyl...
- CharlesW 4y ago
  This is the kind of thoughtful, rational commentary I think the parent commenter was looking for. Thank you!
  - isx726552 4y ago
    You’re welcome, although I think it’s kinda more than this essay really deserves. When it starts off with an already-deconstructed Nazi comparison and then had nothing new to add beyond that, it’s kind of a low effort shitpost. It shouldn’t be too surprising if most of the comments are also low effort shitposts. Happy to elevate things for a moment but this really doesn’t deserve much attention at the end of the day; it’s pretty trollish, sadly.
- pnf 4y ago
  The symbolism of the zoomed out context is hilariously not any less ominous or threatening. The blue coasts surrounding and squeezing the extremist red middle of America. It was bad optics all around, unless it was intended to intimidate, in which case it put the intended targets on notice. If your strengths don't include psychology, metaphor, symbolism, power politics, etc... maybe don't swim in that pool and definitely don't volunteer yourself as a lifeguard.
pnf 4y ago

by jnovek 4y ago

adultSwim 4y ago

We are witnessing information warfare unfold in real time. Every government and many companies are trying to exert pressure. People are responding by picking sides. It's a dangerous situation.

blub 4y ago

Yes, the amount of hate for Snowden and Assange is dismaying. These men sacrificed their lives to expose the crimes of one of - if not the most -powerful organizations on Earth. And people nitpick that they’re not criticizing the other most powerful entities too. Basically they’re criticizing them for not committing suicide in the name of a people which were impotent of unwilling to do anything with the revelations provided. I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss, never mind reveal any compromising information on anyone.

HyperSane 4y ago
Assange has been a Russian asset for a long time. Snowden is a spokesman for Putin now. What a coincidence.
- not1ofU 4y ago
  Source?
  - HyperSane 4y ago
    https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-that-assange-has-ties-to-russian-intelligence/ https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/07/15/ecuador-concluded-t... https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...
belltaco 4y ago
>I’d be surprised to hear that these people even contradict their boss Has Snowden talked about Putin's war on Ukraine yet?
- briantakita 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dzikimarian 4y ago
    - briantakita 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - not1ofU 4y ago
      - dzikimarian 4y ago
- HyperSane 4y ago
  He very vocally defended Russia while they were building up to the invasion and then became completely silent after they invaded. I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden doesn't actually have the password to his Twitter account and can only post Putin approved tweets.
  - scottLobster 4y ago
    A lot of people, including establishment "experts" didn't think Russia was going to invade and called US estimations war-mongering. Also it's probably not a good idea to antagonize the people holding you hostage, he's one hospital trip away from falling out a window. Snowden is clearly trying to be as effective as he can in spreading his message, given his conditions. He's already sacrificed any semblance of a normal/comfortable life, saying he's full of shit just because he doesn't effectively commit suicide strikes me as disingenuous criticism by those who already want to see him dead. Honestly the only legitimate criticism of Snowden I've read so far is that he may have handed over intelligence as part of his asylum bargain that got operatives killed. But, probably due to the nature of said operatives/operations and the agencies they may/may not have worked for, it's impossible to know from the outside how true that is. It's not like the intelligence community has a history of honesty with the general public, or won't lie to get what it wants. CIA/NSA/Military Intelligence Services seem to step way over the line every 10-20 years or so and some new scandal gets leaked, and we have a big debate over whether the leakers were traitors or patriots. This is just another wave in the signal unless we fundamentally reform the system.
colpabar 4y ago
I love HN, but at the end of the day, it's a reddit-clone for a silicon valley VC fund. No one is here to start a revolution, and in fact, a lot of users probably make a living doing things that snowden sympathizers (I don't mean that as a slight, I am one) would claim are ruining the world.
- haskellandchill 4y ago
  I'm here to start a revolution, and I don't think Assange or Snowden are any use for it. They did a good thing once and then have acted very unfavorably. The revolution does not need cheerleaders, celebrities, or charlatans.
  - colpabar 4y ago
roflyear 4y ago
Hate, or just pointing out that these people, while I think they did the right thing (and they probably did too), certainly did not act in the best interests of the US? That is a motivation I'm sure they carry after being chased around the world for a decade or two.
- not1ofU 4y ago
  the needs of the many... blah blah
Lendal 4y ago
I can disapprove of Snowden in general, and also see that he has a point in this article. The article is not political. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally blamed but the photo he chose is of the sitting president, a Democrat. The only problem I have with the article is our current internal politics work against reform and he did not address this, nor did he suggest any specific reforms he would recommend. For someone with such a decent understanding of the CIA, why didn't he? Does he just like to set fires and watch them burn?
jononomo 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

roflyear 4y ago

ssnistfajen 4y ago

Or perhaps we don't need HN exceptionalism? Intelligence isn't translated universally onto all subject matters. Just because someone is good at writing code doesn't make them well-suited to understand any non-programming topics to have a well-informed or rational discussion about it. There's no reason why HN should have a higher quality discussion on these subjects than some generic subreddit or FB comment sections. Of course I wish the discussion quality could be higher, but I understand why it isn't.

CodeMage 4y ago
> Or perhaps we don't need HN exceptionalism? It's not exceptionalism to lament the downfall of the tradition of carefully cultivated discourse. I still remember when this community used to be different, and this site was the one I went to first. > There's no reason why HN should have a higher quality discussion than some generic subreddit or FB comment sections. Yes, there is. HN uses to have a higher quality discussion because it was carefully moderated both by the community itself and the moderators. Sadly, it seems that all communities deteriorate eventually.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tootifrooti 4y ago
  .
  - blantonl 4y ago
    Don't read political threads either. One should have come to the conclusion long ago that no platform is "enlightened enough" to shy away from the basic human instincts of "us vs them."
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- ssnistfajen 4y ago

paxys 4y ago

Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September. Happens to every forum. HN is well past its "hidden niche community" period and is now attracting the same crowd as Reddit, Facebook and the like.

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

briantakita 4y ago

The stakes are high & war is in the air...Expect more of this to devolve everywhere.

isx726552 4y ago

Snowden is absolutely a hero for what he did to expose US surveillance. It is also right for people to be suspicious of anything he says at the moment given his current situation. There’s no contradiction between the two. As I wrote elsewhere in the comments on this story, the atrocities of the CIA are sadly well known. There’s nothing new here. The beginning of Snowden’s post is a surprisingly poor take on Biden’s recent speech, reposting the same zoomed-in image with the red background, ignoring the additional context[0][1] and comparing the presentation to the Nazis. Although he does call it “unintentional”, he still chooses to amplify the same take as the American right-wing even though it’s been a while since the speech and people have mostly moved on. Snowden also does little to actually address the content of what Biden said regarding new and immediate threats to the US, choosing instead to focus on existing problems with the CIA which, while terrible, are not new and not unknown. He claims this is “consideration of [Biden’s] premises” but I think that’s a stretch to say the least. In short, I think people are right to be critical of this essay and suspicious of Snowden’s motives in this specific case, without taking anything away from his previous actions. [0] https://imgur.com/a/m7h2PtO https://imgur.com/a/m7h2PtO [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/02/trump-biden-pennsylvania-rallies-00054582 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/02/trump-biden-pennsyl...

CharlesW 4y ago
This is the kind of thoughtful, rational commentary I think the parent commenter was looking for. Thank you!
- isx726552 4y ago
  You’re welcome, although I think it’s kinda more than this essay really deserves. When it starts off with an already-deconstructed Nazi comparison and then had nothing new to add beyond that, it’s kind of a low effort shitpost. It shouldn’t be too surprising if most of the comments are also low effort shitposts. Happy to elevate things for a moment but this really doesn’t deserve much attention at the end of the day; it’s pretty trollish, sadly.
pnf 4y ago
The symbolism of the zoomed out context is hilariously not any less ominous or threatening. The blue coasts surrounding and squeezing the extremist red middle of America. It was bad optics all around, unless it was intended to intimidate, in which case it put the intended targets on notice. If your strengths don't include psychology, metaphor, symbolism, power politics, etc... maybe don't swim in that pool and definitely don't volunteer yourself as a lifeguard.

pnf 4y ago