4 ms·

I adore pg’s essay. But this time something is tripping my spider sense, so I had to take a closer look (at my spider sense, and a bit on the essay too). This

by NhanH 4y ago

I adore pg’s essay. But this time something is tripping my spider sense, so I had to take a closer look (at my spider sense, and a bit on the essay too). This is the first time an essay feels like a sale pitch. Specifically, a sale pitch for YC. I’ve read pg’s essay about YC for about 15 years, and this is the first one I have that feeling. This one is a bit too abstract. I’m getting the idea that YC can help founders tremendously, that their knowledge is specialized and hard to get elsewhere. But I’m eagerly waiting for one concrete example, and none are to be found. Normally I’d expect a real set of examples from startups, instead of the analogy in horror movies. I still remember the essay where pg described how he came up with Jessica the idea of YC, while walking somewhere, explaining very concretely what he thought at the time. For any other writer or organization, I’d just guess they are trying to “keep their secret recipe”. That is neither pg or YC’s MO. So yeah, this feels strange.

ignoramous 4y ago
> But I'm eagerly waiting for one concrete example, and none are to be found. Well not in essay, but there are plenty examples in the real world, surely? "Paul Graham gave us a series of advice that changed our business forever." -Brian Chesky, https://archive.is/xvx31 https://archive.is/xvx31 "One big thing that YC did for me is it was an ambition multiplier. Pre-YC I thought it'd be cool to make software that could just pay my bills. A year post-batch and I find my default state is much more ambitious than before." -u/CoffeePython (YC S21), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32556060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32556060 "I have to say though - while the success rate of these YC-only funds is likely good enough to make them quite profitable, none of them come even close to what I observed with PG's ability to pick the winners (which makes sense, since a lot of other people have tried to build accelerators and none of them come even close to YC)." -u/aerosimle (YC), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25381893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25381893 ...
- NhanH 4y ago
  That is exactly why I single out this essay as being unusual.
whiddershins 4y ago
Of course YC has some secrets in their recipe.
- jedberg 4y ago
  I wouldn't consider that a given. YC is very generous with their information. They put all their trainings online, and even all their legal documents. They realize that their value is in the people, not the artifacts.
wilde 4y ago
I suspect part of it is that he’d need to go and chase down permission for a bunch of the anecdotes since YC office hours have an expectation of privacy. But maybe there’s a version of this essay with a tic more detail you’d prefer?
yashap 4y ago
Strongly agree, this is one of PG’s worst essays IMO (I’m also generally a fan of his essays). On top of it feeling sales-y, it really gives the vibe of someone who DOESN’T listen to users. There’s essentially nothing concrete that he’s learned from users in this essay, despite that supposedly being the topic, just “they have similar problems and don’t know how to prioritize.”
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  He could have spilled the beans about what the top problems founders have. These are probably covered in the online startup course YC runs though - so not a "secret" but maybe he didn't want this to be a startup advice piece, but more abstract.
FerociousTimes 4y ago
> But I’m eagerly waiting for one concrete example, and none are to be found. Were you looking for testimonials embedded in the essay to meet your expectations? Of course, this wouldn't be acceptable as it would turn the piece unmistakably into a sales pitch for his product cementing your suspicions about the nature or motives behind authoring this post, a viewpoint which by the way I don't necessarily share. This type of reporting that you're specifically looking for is best served with other formats like featured stories or in-depth analyses done by news organization; where they get to interview YC partners, alumni and startup founders, and solicit their opinions and thoughts about their experience with the organization, but even this reporting needs to be balanced and informative otherwise it will be mistaken for an advertorial or, as you guessed, a sales pitch.
- insightcheck 4y ago
  Testimonials, despite carrying the baggage of being a marketing term, are a legitimate form of evidence, especially if the people giving testimony are named in full. It affects their reputation if either they or the company they are testifying for are disreputable. It’s true that independent reporting will be more likely to provide a balanced and objective assessment, but at the same time, opinionated articles like the submitted essay are more valuable with the provision of stronger evidence.
  - FerociousTimes 4y ago
    Testimonials in general are like these cheesy or sleazy infomercials on home shopping channels, fake and worthless and that's why they earned the bad reputation that they have. Also, it is not even that the essay itself is totally bereft of real world examples to support his thesis, when he actually cited Airbnb as a case of coming around, and applying the practical advice given to the founders by YC to deliver value.
    - insightcheck 4y ago
      To clarify, I maintain that testimonials from people who give their full names (and thus can be contacted after) are perceived as solid evidence. A common real-life example of named testimonials seen as credible by recruiters are written LinkedIn endorsements from named people who are connections on a person's profile. However, I agree that nameless or semi-anonymized testimonials are less valuable and give the entire term of "testimonial" a poor reputation, because their truthfulness can't be verified. On the second point, what you wrote is true, but the Airbnb mention was pretty short; your comment is probably around the same length as Graham's mention. The Airbnb mention in full consists of: "[4] The Airbnbs were particularly good at listening — partly because they were flexible and disciplined, but also because they'd had such a rough time during the preceding year. They were ready to listen." I could find no mentions of other named companies involved with YC in the article, and the Airbnb mention was quite brief (the assertion was that they listened to YC's advice, and the implication is that this was the reason behind its success).
drc500free 4y ago
It definitely is strange to repeat over and over that startups are counter-intuitive, and that the best advice isn't easily believable, and not give even a single demonstrative example. Agree, this sounded like a Tony Robbins style pitch where you don't get to hear any of the magic until you've paid for the seminar.
mcguire 4y ago
Well, PG did just say out loud that founders were YC's users. And, as a user, if you aren't paying for the product, you are the product...
robocat 4y ago
I am guessing you started reading PG when young, and are now becoming cynical about the world after 15 years. Perhaps PG has stayed the same and you have changed? The first “sales pitch” I noticed was 10 years ago: http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html (it isn’t a sales pitch for YC, instead it is a sales pitch for founding a startup). I also suspect you are mistaking his passion for a pitch. I would bet PG is happy to see all startups succeed, whether YC is helping them or not. It isn’t like PG needs to try and succeed with more status and more money. Disclaimer: I don’t know PG and I don’t know similar people that might help me stereotype him correctly.

by NhanH 4y ago

ignoramous 4y ago

> But I'm eagerly waiting for one concrete example, and none are to be found. Well not in essay, but there are plenty examples in the real world, surely? "Paul Graham gave us a series of advice that changed our business forever." -Brian Chesky, https://archive.is/xvx31 https://archive.is/xvx31 "One big thing that YC did for me is it was an ambition multiplier. Pre-YC I thought it'd be cool to make software that could just pay my bills. A year post-batch and I find my default state is much more ambitious than before." -u/CoffeePython (YC S21), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32556060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32556060 "I have to say though - while the success rate of these YC-only funds is likely good enough to make them quite profitable, none of them come even close to what I observed with PG's ability to pick the winners (which makes sense, since a lot of other people have tried to build accelerators and none of them come even close to YC)." -u/aerosimle (YC), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25381893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25381893 ...

NhanH 4y ago
That is exactly why I single out this essay as being unusual.

whiddershins 4y ago

Of course YC has some secrets in their recipe.

jedberg 4y ago
I wouldn't consider that a given. YC is very generous with their information. They put all their trainings online, and even all their legal documents. They realize that their value is in the people, not the artifacts.

wilde 4y ago

I suspect part of it is that he’d need to go and chase down permission for a bunch of the anecdotes since YC office hours have an expectation of privacy. But maybe there’s a version of this essay with a tic more detail you’d prefer?

yashap 4y ago

Strongly agree, this is one of PG’s worst essays IMO (I’m also generally a fan of his essays). On top of it feeling sales-y, it really gives the vibe of someone who DOESN’T listen to users. There’s essentially nothing concrete that he’s learned from users in this essay, despite that supposedly being the topic, just “they have similar problems and don’t know how to prioritize.”

quickthrower2 4y ago
He could have spilled the beans about what the top problems founders have. These are probably covered in the online startup course YC runs though - so not a "secret" but maybe he didn't want this to be a startup advice piece, but more abstract.

FerociousTimes 4y ago

> But I’m eagerly waiting for one concrete example, and none are to be found. Were you looking for testimonials embedded in the essay to meet your expectations? Of course, this wouldn't be acceptable as it would turn the piece unmistakably into a sales pitch for his product cementing your suspicions about the nature or motives behind authoring this post, a viewpoint which by the way I don't necessarily share. This type of reporting that you're specifically looking for is best served with other formats like featured stories or in-depth analyses done by news organization; where they get to interview YC partners, alumni and startup founders, and solicit their opinions and thoughts about their experience with the organization, but even this reporting needs to be balanced and informative otherwise it will be mistaken for an advertorial or, as you guessed, a sales pitch.

insightcheck 4y ago
Testimonials, despite carrying the baggage of being a marketing term, are a legitimate form of evidence, especially if the people giving testimony are named in full. It affects their reputation if either they or the company they are testifying for are disreputable. It’s true that independent reporting will be more likely to provide a balanced and objective assessment, but at the same time, opinionated articles like the submitted essay are more valuable with the provision of stronger evidence.
- FerociousTimes 4y ago
  Testimonials in general are like these cheesy or sleazy infomercials on home shopping channels, fake and worthless and that's why they earned the bad reputation that they have. Also, it is not even that the essay itself is totally bereft of real world examples to support his thesis, when he actually cited Airbnb as a case of coming around, and applying the practical advice given to the founders by YC to deliver value.
  - insightcheck 4y ago
    To clarify, I maintain that testimonials from people who give their full names (and thus can be contacted after) are perceived as solid evidence. A common real-life example of named testimonials seen as credible by recruiters are written LinkedIn endorsements from named people who are connections on a person's profile. However, I agree that nameless or semi-anonymized testimonials are less valuable and give the entire term of "testimonial" a poor reputation, because their truthfulness can't be verified. On the second point, what you wrote is true, but the Airbnb mention was pretty short; your comment is probably around the same length as Graham's mention. The Airbnb mention in full consists of: "[4] The Airbnbs were particularly good at listening — partly because they were flexible and disciplined, but also because they'd had such a rough time during the preceding year. They were ready to listen." I could find no mentions of other named companies involved with YC in the article, and the Airbnb mention was quite brief (the assertion was that they listened to YC's advice, and the implication is that this was the reason behind its success).

drc500free 4y ago

It definitely is strange to repeat over and over that startups are counter-intuitive, and that the best advice isn't easily believable, and not give even a single demonstrative example. Agree, this sounded like a Tony Robbins style pitch where you don't get to hear any of the magic until you've paid for the seminar.

mcguire 4y ago

Well, PG did just say out loud that founders were YC's users. And, as a user, if you aren't paying for the product, you are the product...

robocat 4y ago

I am guessing you started reading PG when young, and are now becoming cynical about the world after 15 years. Perhaps PG has stayed the same and you have changed? The first “sales pitch” I noticed was 10 years ago: http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html (it isn’t a sales pitch for YC, instead it is a sales pitch for founding a startup). I also suspect you are mistaking his passion for a pitch. I would bet PG is happy to see all startups succeed, whether YC is helping them or not. It isn’t like PG needs to try and succeed with more status and more money. Disclaimer: I don’t know PG and I don’t know similar people that might help me stereotype him correctly.