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So easy enough if building a new small house or a cabin. The US has many many houses with 4000+ square feet, and no good way to heat it cool outside if AC and

So easy enough if building a new small house or a cabin. The US has many many houses with 4000+ square feet, and no good way to heat it cool outside if AC and a furnace. Are we going to bulldoze all existing houses to meet this goal? What’s the impact of that to the environment?

Forge36 4y ago
We can require higher standards for new houses. Renovating existing houses will need to focus on the worst ones first. Possibly at sale time.
evilduck 4y ago
Less dramatically they could also close some vents and doors.
ben_w 4y ago
Four thousand square feet? That's more than ten times the area of the apartment I own back in the UK. Big is generally easier to keep warm than small thanks to the square cube law, but even in pathological cases it's never harder when scaling up. Even assuming that 4000 sq ft is spread over 4 levels, that's a ground area of just under 93 m^2, and even in Anchor Point Alaska [0] with 15% panels, that roof can make more on average than the other poster says they're using. [0] This map doesn't go as far north as Anchorage: https://solargis.com/maps-and-gis-data/download/world https://solargis.com/maps-and-gis-data/download/world
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
> Are we going to bulldoze all existing houses to meet this goal? Nah, we can retrofit. There are more efficient means of heating/cooling, like mini-splits and heat pumps, insulation, geothermal, etc. With more local and energy-efficient methods (and better insulation) we can get much better efficiencies. Back in the day, for heating you would have one or two fireplaces. The home was configured so that rooms would get progressively colder away from the heat source. You wouldn't heat the whole home, just one or two rooms, unless there was a special occasion, and then you'd open all the doors. For passive cooling, house facing was critical, as were ventilation, cross-breezes, and later on fans. Homes located in places with extreme temperature shifts were designed to open or close up more or less over the seasons, although they were never "efficient" as they often had no insulation.
- Steltek 4y ago
  The best retrofit would be splitting those mega homes into multiple units. We have a housing crisis after all. I can't even imagine what a 4000sq ft home looks like. You would start using olde timey names for random rooms. "This is the Conservatory, where we keep our 4th xbox, just in case".
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Here is a random one: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/339-County-Road-4315-Naples-TX-75568/235164834_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/339-County-Road-4315-Napl... Often the newer ones have large amounts of "waste space" where hallways are larger, entryways are larger, rooms of course are larger.
    - danans 4y ago
      > Often the newer ones have large amounts of "waste space" where hallways are larger, entryways are larger, rooms of course are larger. That house seems to have been built in 1971. In contrast, here is a brand new home in the same city that is only 1200 sqft. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/154-Lt-Rusty-Dr-Naples-TX-75568/2062415557_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/154-Lt-Rusty-Dr-Naples-TX...? It seems like someone is building sensibly sized homes there, however rare.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Yeah, the "newer ones" refers to the general trend of McMansions to expand in size even though not much else changes. Square feet is such a bad measurement of a house, but it's easy to measure and state so it continues unabated. You also have weird economies of scale where the first 1k sq ft of a house is much more expensive than the second 1k, and that continues basically until you're forced to use other construction methods (steel, for example).
wongarsu 4y ago
> 4000+ square feet For reference, that's 370m². In European terms that's probably double what you would expect for a typical family of four.
- FabHK 4y ago
  Hong Kong apartments start at around 120 sq feet (about 11m²), and a family of 6 might live in 550 sq feet (50m²).
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  It is double in US terms too: https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-square-footage-to-nationwide-surveys-of-owners-and-renters/ https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-... https://www.census.gov/construction/chars/highlights.html https://www.census.gov/construction/chars/highlights.html > The median size of a new single-family home sold in 2021 was 2,356 square feet.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
4,000 sq ft is a 95th percentile home in the US. https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-square-footage-to-nationwide-surveys-of-owners-and-renters/ https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-...
immibis 4y ago
Just spray the walls full of aerogel using a process that hasn't been invented yet. Optionally, board half the windows (with aerogel).

Forge36 4y ago

We can require higher standards for new houses. Renovating existing houses will need to focus on the worst ones first. Possibly at sale time.

evilduck 4y ago

Less dramatically they could also close some vents and doors.

ben_w 4y ago

Four thousand square feet? That's more than ten times the area of the apartment I own back in the UK. Big is generally easier to keep warm than small thanks to the square cube law, but even in pathological cases it's never harder when scaling up. Even assuming that 4000 sq ft is spread over 4 levels, that's a ground area of just under 93 m^2, and even in Anchor Point Alaska [0] with 15% panels, that roof can make more on average than the other poster says they're using. [0] This map doesn't go as far north as Anchorage: https://solargis.com/maps-and-gis-data/download/world https://solargis.com/maps-and-gis-data/download/world

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

> Are we going to bulldoze all existing houses to meet this goal? Nah, we can retrofit. There are more efficient means of heating/cooling, like mini-splits and heat pumps, insulation, geothermal, etc. With more local and energy-efficient methods (and better insulation) we can get much better efficiencies. Back in the day, for heating you would have one or two fireplaces. The home was configured so that rooms would get progressively colder away from the heat source. You wouldn't heat the whole home, just one or two rooms, unless there was a special occasion, and then you'd open all the doors. For passive cooling, house facing was critical, as were ventilation, cross-breezes, and later on fans. Homes located in places with extreme temperature shifts were designed to open or close up more or less over the seasons, although they were never "efficient" as they often had no insulation.

Steltek 4y ago
The best retrofit would be splitting those mega homes into multiple units. We have a housing crisis after all. I can't even imagine what a 4000sq ft home looks like. You would start using olde timey names for random rooms. "This is the Conservatory, where we keep our 4th xbox, just in case".
- bombcar 4y ago
  Here is a random one: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/339-County-Road-4315-Naples-TX-75568/235164834_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/339-County-Road-4315-Napl... Often the newer ones have large amounts of "waste space" where hallways are larger, entryways are larger, rooms of course are larger.
  - danans 4y ago
    > Often the newer ones have large amounts of "waste space" where hallways are larger, entryways are larger, rooms of course are larger. That house seems to have been built in 1971. In contrast, here is a brand new home in the same city that is only 1200 sqft. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/154-Lt-Rusty-Dr-Naples-TX-75568/2062415557_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/154-Lt-Rusty-Dr-Naples-TX...? It seems like someone is building sensibly sized homes there, however rare.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Yeah, the "newer ones" refers to the general trend of McMansions to expand in size even though not much else changes. Square feet is such a bad measurement of a house, but it's easy to measure and state so it continues unabated. You also have weird economies of scale where the first 1k sq ft of a house is much more expensive than the second 1k, and that continues basically until you're forced to use other construction methods (steel, for example).

wongarsu 4y ago

> 4000+ square feet For reference, that's 370m². In European terms that's probably double what you would expect for a typical family of four.

FabHK 4y ago
Hong Kong apartments start at around 120 sq feet (about 11m²), and a family of 6 might live in 550 sq feet (50m²).
lotsofpulp 4y ago
It is double in US terms too: https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-square-footage-to-nationwide-surveys-of-owners-and-renters/ https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-... https://www.census.gov/construction/chars/highlights.html https://www.census.gov/construction/chars/highlights.html > The median size of a new single-family home sold in 2021 was 2,356 square feet.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

4,000 sq ft is a 95th percentile home in the US. https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-square-footage-to-nationwide-surveys-of-owners-and-renters/ https://www.frugalfringe.com/calculators/compare-your-homes-...

immibis 4y ago

Just spray the walls full of aerogel using a process that hasn't been invented yet. Optionally, board half the windows (with aerogel).