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> IMO it's easier to write super complex stuff in C++ than in Rust as there are just too many cognitive things to keep in mind in Rust to even compile. It kee

> IMO it's easier to write super complex stuff in C++ than in Rust as there are just too many cognitive things to keep in mind in Rust to even compile. It keeps you from compiling (many of) the bugs you'll happily write and deploy in C++. I don't think there's really much practical difference in "cognitive load" between modern C++ (which is painfully complex in ways that are largely not even useful) and rust. C++ just lets you pretend it's lower and you ship more bugs. Imo, writing rust is like the best parts of writing C++ with a stern but helpful assistant.

bitL 4y ago
Sure, but don't forget the inherent trade-off - Rust allows you to write safer code at the cost of getting in the way. It simplifies some things and makes other things very complex. It empowers average devs that can suddenly write certain types of system services easily and be reasonably sure they work as intended, but it gets in the way of advanced devs writing core systems.
- stormbrew 4y ago
  This sounds an awful lot like how everyone thinks they're an exceptional driver and everyone else is bad. Reality is no one's actually that great at piloting a ton of metal at speeds their brains can't keep up with in an uncontrolled environment. Anyways, unsafe exists so that if rust is genuinely in your way you can still do what you need to do.
  - bitL 4y ago
    Even C++ requires inline/linked assembler code in certain system cases to squeeze out maximum performance - why would you think Rust is an exception? It has nothing to do with elitism.
    - stormbrew 4y ago
      If we're talking about raw performance then I'm baffled at what you're talking about to begin with. Rust can link with assembly just as well as c++ and I believe inline asm was stabilized a while ago. Otherwise it's llvm doing the heavy lifting on optimization so clang++ or rust is not much different. Other than the fact that rust can rely on much much stricter aliasing rules and do a bit better on some optimizations because of it. Usually when people talk about rust getting in their way they mean the borrow checker, which you can ask to get out of your way and it will still prevent bugs around the unsafe code. Bugs that "advanced programmers" are also prone to, especially around concurrency. The idea that some programmers are so good they don't make simple but consequential mistakes in code that deals in concurrency and memory management is absolutely elitism. There is no programmer on the planet who can't benefit from the borrow checker, and if there are any who will benefit less than they are "hindered" by it, there are almost certainly vanishingly few.

bitL 4y ago

Sure, but don't forget the inherent trade-off - Rust allows you to write safer code at the cost of getting in the way. It simplifies some things and makes other things very complex. It empowers average devs that can suddenly write certain types of system services easily and be reasonably sure they work as intended, but it gets in the way of advanced devs writing core systems.

stormbrew 4y ago
This sounds an awful lot like how everyone thinks they're an exceptional driver and everyone else is bad. Reality is no one's actually that great at piloting a ton of metal at speeds their brains can't keep up with in an uncontrolled environment. Anyways, unsafe exists so that if rust is genuinely in your way you can still do what you need to do.
- bitL 4y ago
  Even C++ requires inline/linked assembler code in certain system cases to squeeze out maximum performance - why would you think Rust is an exception? It has nothing to do with elitism.
  - stormbrew 4y ago
    If we're talking about raw performance then I'm baffled at what you're talking about to begin with. Rust can link with assembly just as well as c++ and I believe inline asm was stabilized a while ago. Otherwise it's llvm doing the heavy lifting on optimization so clang++ or rust is not much different. Other than the fact that rust can rely on much much stricter aliasing rules and do a bit better on some optimizations because of it. Usually when people talk about rust getting in their way they mean the borrow checker, which you can ask to get out of your way and it will still prevent bugs around the unsafe code. Bugs that "advanced programmers" are also prone to, especially around concurrency. The idea that some programmers are so good they don't make simple but consequential mistakes in code that deals in concurrency and memory management is absolutely elitism. There is no programmer on the planet who can't benefit from the borrow checker, and if there are any who will benefit less than they are "hindered" by it, there are almost certainly vanishingly few.