38 ms·

So you don't feel that doctors should pay for their education? What about jobs which require paid certifications? But in general I agree. Keep paid education s

So you don't feel that doctors should pay for their education? What about jobs which require paid certifications? But in general I agree. Keep paid education separate from employment. No good can come from conflating the two.

c3534l 4y ago
That is such a misrepresentation of what I said I think you might have just misread it or something. They should pay for their education with money. If they can't afford medical school, they can take out a loan. That loan shouldn't be a condition of employment payable to your employer. Like I said, either you should get the training yourself or the employer should provide it.
- derbOac 4y ago
  What's interesting is that medical residencies in the US have involved similar controversies as highlighted by the piece that's the focus of this thread. Residents are not allowed to leave their residencies, under threat of being banned from the matching process that's required to enter one. The criticism is this leads to all sorts of abuse from programs, because unhappy residents can't transfer. This is despite the fact residencies are often federally funded, and the residents have already taken out large educational loans for medical school.
molotovh 4y ago
Education and job training are not the same thing. Education in a field is general knowledge needed to perform in the field regardless of employer. Job training is learning the specific knowledge needed to perform a specific position for a specific employer, including their SOPs, policies, etc.
throwaway743 4y ago
No, they shouldn't. Higher education should be accessible to all. If the "higher taxes" argument is what's implied, the return on an educated populace would show in GDP, likely reflect in lower crime rates, improvements in quality of life, among other things.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Then what do people mean when they say that education is higher education? Obviously it means higher than most everyone else.
  - throwaway743 4y ago
    Then what do people mean when they say "HIGH school"? Does that mean they're above others? Joking but what're you getting at? I'm not about playing semantics out of pettiness. My point is that if "post high school" education (aka university) is accessible to/an option for everyone, then everyone benefits, from the individual, to their community, all the way up to GDP/tax dollars. It's not a bullshit blue vs white collar "culture war" talking point, it's a matter of everyone having the same shot at furthering their education via university regardless of whatever their income is/their living situation/what family they were born into.
nottorp 4y ago
> So you don't feel that doctors should pay for their education? Some HN readers do live in countries where higher education is free ish.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  This. And when it isn't, everyone suffers. When it is low-cost to free, you get folks that want to be doctors and qualify. When it costs more than a nominal fee, you take those folks and sort them by whoever can afford it, which may not be the best candidates. It also makes it more of an "elite" profession since poor folks are priced out of it. By free, I do mean low-cost to free for the student and funded by taxpayers. Educated people benefit society at large, and especially so when folks are doing public service of different sorts (like doctors).

c3534l 4y ago

That is such a misrepresentation of what I said I think you might have just misread it or something. They should pay for their education with money. If they can't afford medical school, they can take out a loan. That loan shouldn't be a condition of employment payable to your employer. Like I said, either you should get the training yourself or the employer should provide it.

derbOac 4y ago
What's interesting is that medical residencies in the US have involved similar controversies as highlighted by the piece that's the focus of this thread. Residents are not allowed to leave their residencies, under threat of being banned from the matching process that's required to enter one. The criticism is this leads to all sorts of abuse from programs, because unhappy residents can't transfer. This is despite the fact residencies are often federally funded, and the residents have already taken out large educational loans for medical school.

molotovh 4y ago

Education and job training are not the same thing. Education in a field is general knowledge needed to perform in the field regardless of employer. Job training is learning the specific knowledge needed to perform a specific position for a specific employer, including their SOPs, policies, etc.

throwaway743 4y ago

No, they shouldn't. Higher education should be accessible to all. If the "higher taxes" argument is what's implied, the return on an educated populace would show in GDP, likely reflect in lower crime rates, improvements in quality of life, among other things.

daniel-cussen 4y ago
Then what do people mean when they say that education is higher education? Obviously it means higher than most everyone else.
- throwaway743 4y ago
  Then what do people mean when they say "HIGH school"? Does that mean they're above others? Joking but what're you getting at? I'm not about playing semantics out of pettiness. My point is that if "post high school" education (aka university) is accessible to/an option for everyone, then everyone benefits, from the individual, to their community, all the way up to GDP/tax dollars. It's not a bullshit blue vs white collar "culture war" talking point, it's a matter of everyone having the same shot at furthering their education via university regardless of whatever their income is/their living situation/what family they were born into.

nottorp 4y ago

> So you don't feel that doctors should pay for their education? Some HN readers do live in countries where higher education is free ish.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
This. And when it isn't, everyone suffers. When it is low-cost to free, you get folks that want to be doctors and qualify. When it costs more than a nominal fee, you take those folks and sort them by whoever can afford it, which may not be the best candidates. It also makes it more of an "elite" profession since poor folks are priced out of it. By free, I do mean low-cost to free for the student and funded by taxpayers. Educated people benefit society at large, and especially so when folks are doing public service of different sorts (like doctors).