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That's a fairly recent thing that some people do as a kind of virtue signaling. The "C/C++ Users Journal" was a very popular publication and no one took issue

by Kranar 4y ago

That's a fairly recent thing that some people do as a kind of virtue signaling. The "C/C++ Users Journal" was a very popular publication and no one took issue with its name. Nor do people take issue with Dr. Dobbs which has a "C/C++" section with articles from highly influential members of the C/C++ community. C++ is a complex language, so people invent ways to show how dedicated they are to it, and nowadays that means pretending to get all worked up over the term "C/C++".

MathMonkeyMan 4y ago
C/C++ is undefined if C is an instance of an integral type.
- zem 4y ago
  it's just 1/++
im3w1l 4y ago
I think it's also that idiomatic C++ is evolving further and further away from anything resembling C. So it's turning from C with extra features into a completely separate language that happens to interoperate well with C.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  This is true. It's also true that, in terms of abstract machine semantics, C++ is the closest language to C. Similarly, in terms of optimizing compiler implementations, they're the two "core" languages implemented by most frontends. The grouping of "C/C++" makes sense in both of these contexts, at the minimum.
unglaublich 4y ago
C/C++ is as naïve as ASM/C or Ape/Human. You come up with examples that are over 30 years old.
- Kranar 4y ago
  Yes my examples are old because the entire point I'm making is that this outrage over "C/C++" is a relatively recent phenomenon. People 10-20 years ago didn't really care or take issue with that term.
  - YZF 4y ago
    I was there and yes we did ;)
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    I was there and yes we did. You wish it was recent and something you could pretend about. But anytime you write it, you are telling a lie. Being seen lying tells the reader more about you than you probably intend.
wahern 4y ago
> That's a fairly recent thing that some people do as a kind of virtue signaling. If by recent you mean well over 20 years ago. When I began learning C circa 2000, I used to hang out on comp.lang.c, and "C/C++" was very much frowned upon. And for good reason--people felt entitled to ask C++ questions in a C newsgroup, which was and remains a poor idea. Even if they were asking questions relevant to both, e.g. regarding pointers, it's still a much better idea to ask in a C++ newsgroup. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem There are people (invariably young) who resist newsgroup etiquette, convinced the etiquette is pointless, or something like virtue signaling. Over the decades they eventually come around to appreciating the wisdom, even if there's never a mea culpa. The commercial software world, and especially the Windows world, often had a much different culture than what developed online, especially in the FOSS and Unix subcultures. For the latter especially, C++ was relatively uncommon until the 21st century. C++ (with KDE, etc) and then Python had the effect of importing or creating whole new subcultures in these communities without any memory or appreciation of the pre-existing culture.
- Kranar 4y ago
  Not seeing evidence of your claim. A simple search on comp.lang.c for C/C++ turns up plenty of results and no one, not a single person, is calling it out. Infact there's plenty of discussion on an almost daily basis discussing the two languages almost seamlessly. Looks like there's even a alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ newsgroup as well. For reference I also did a search from 1998 to 2002... once again no one cares or is objecting to the term C/C++ and that term is used quite often. From this search I also just learned that Microsoft's own compiler uses the term "C/C++". Furthermore, if something is relevant to both languages, such as a question involving pointers, why would it be a bad idea to ask about it in a C newsgroup? If anything, it's preferable to ask a question that is pertinent to both languages, especially one involving pointers, in the C newsgroup. Certainly asking a strictly C++ question in a C newsgroup would be off-topic and rightly so, but asking a question about pointers or other low-level details that are applicable to both languages is perfectly fine in a C newsgroup.
  - wahern 4y ago
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
The distinction actually makes perfect sense during the hiring process. If a recruiter approaches me with a C/C++ gig then I will immediately assume that either the hiring manager doesn't know what they want or the hiring manager didn't actually write the job specs, none of those scenarios sends a positive signal.
kazinator 4y ago
> That's a fairly recent thing that some people do as a kind of virtue signaling. It was a pretty common correction the comp.lang.c newsgroup in the 1990s. "Hey you dolt, there is no C/C++; they are different languages." "Oh yeah? Well look at how when I run cl.exe, it says Microsoft C/C++ compiler!" "Haha, C/C++ is actually undefined behavior: C++ is modified and independently accessed in the same expression ..."

by Kranar 4y ago

MathMonkeyMan 4y ago

C/C++ is undefined if C is an instance of an integral type.

zem 4y ago
it's just 1/++

im3w1l 4y ago

I think it's also that idiomatic C++ is evolving further and further away from anything resembling C. So it's turning from C with extra features into a completely separate language that happens to interoperate well with C.

woodruffw 4y ago
This is true. It's also true that, in terms of abstract machine semantics, C++ is the closest language to C. Similarly, in terms of optimizing compiler implementations, they're the two "core" languages implemented by most frontends. The grouping of "C/C++" makes sense in both of these contexts, at the minimum.

unglaublich 4y ago

C/C++ is as naïve as ASM/C or Ape/Human. You come up with examples that are over 30 years old.

Kranar 4y ago
Yes my examples are old because the entire point I'm making is that this outrage over "C/C++" is a relatively recent phenomenon. People 10-20 years ago didn't really care or take issue with that term.
- YZF 4y ago
  I was there and yes we did ;)
- ncmncm 4y ago
  I was there and yes we did. You wish it was recent and something you could pretend about. But anytime you write it, you are telling a lie. Being seen lying tells the reader more about you than you probably intend.

wahern 4y ago

> That's a fairly recent thing that some people do as a kind of virtue signaling. If by recent you mean well over 20 years ago. When I began learning C circa 2000, I used to hang out on comp.lang.c, and "C/C++" was very much frowned upon. And for good reason--people felt entitled to ask C++ questions in a C newsgroup, which was and remains a poor idea. Even if they were asking questions relevant to both, e.g. regarding pointers, it's still a much better idea to ask in a C++ newsgroup. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem There are people (invariably young) who resist newsgroup etiquette, convinced the etiquette is pointless, or something like virtue signaling. Over the decades they eventually come around to appreciating the wisdom, even if there's never a mea culpa. The commercial software world, and especially the Windows world, often had a much different culture than what developed online, especially in the FOSS and Unix subcultures. For the latter especially, C++ was relatively uncommon until the 21st century. C++ (with KDE, etc) and then Python had the effect of importing or creating whole new subcultures in these communities without any memory or appreciation of the pre-existing culture.

Kranar 4y ago
Not seeing evidence of your claim. A simple search on comp.lang.c for C/C++ turns up plenty of results and no one, not a single person, is calling it out. Infact there's plenty of discussion on an almost daily basis discussing the two languages almost seamlessly. Looks like there's even a alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ newsgroup as well. For reference I also did a search from 1998 to 2002... once again no one cares or is objecting to the term C/C++ and that term is used quite often. From this search I also just learned that Microsoft's own compiler uses the term "C/C++". Furthermore, if something is relevant to both languages, such as a question involving pointers, why would it be a bad idea to ask about it in a C newsgroup? If anything, it's preferable to ask a question that is pertinent to both languages, especially one involving pointers, in the C newsgroup. Certainly asking a strictly C++ question in a C newsgroup would be off-topic and rightly so, but asking a question about pointers or other low-level details that are applicable to both languages is perfectly fine in a C newsgroup.
- wahern 4y ago

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

The distinction actually makes perfect sense during the hiring process. If a recruiter approaches me with a C/C++ gig then I will immediately assume that either the hiring manager doesn't know what they want or the hiring manager didn't actually write the job specs, none of those scenarios sends a positive signal.

kazinator 4y ago

> That's a fairly recent thing that some people do as a kind of virtue signaling. It was a pretty common correction the comp.lang.c newsgroup in the 1990s. "Hey you dolt, there is no C/C++; they are different languages." "Oh yeah? Well look at how when I run cl.exe, it says Microsoft C/C++ compiler!" "Haha, C/C++ is actually undefined behavior: C++ is modified and independently accessed in the same expression ..."