5 ms·

All businesses in America ultimately end up with rent-seeking and bondage.

metadat 4y ago
I think it reflects more the high degree of desperation employers are feeling with staffing -- especially in cases where they can't (or won't) raise wages. All those boomers abruptly quitting en mass during the pandemic really screwed things up for "the plan". It's time to rethink things, and this TRAP approach is rubbish.
- tdeck 4y ago
  Yep, that's where our sympathy should lie here. With the employers /s
  - metadat 4y ago
    Not what I'm saying at all. I'd be happy to string 'em up, they're repeatedly proving to be scum to the human beings who's care and well-being said employers have been entrusted with.
  - wahern 4y ago
    The relative recency of TRAPs isn't explained by "[a]ll businesses in America ultimately end up with rent-seeking and bondage." You still need a theory to understand why they weren't prevalent before. And within such a theory is where one might begin searching for a remedy, presuming one isn't so cynical that they believe achieving a remedy impossible.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      > so cynical that they believe achieving a remedy impossible. It's cynical to assume that this assessment is cynical.
    - lucas_membrane 4y ago
      Ross Perot's Electronic Data Systems was doing this to programmers, etc., back in the 1970's, IIRC. The required repayment if you quit too soon was quite high, less than a year's wages, around the price of a new car, for the people I talked to who were working there.
ARandomerDude 4y ago
Hard to see how that's the case with most of the business owners I know. They are small companies with < 10 employees making a living. When you're talking about Fortune companies with 10s of thousands of employees, maybe you're right. But "all businesses in America" is painting with a massive roller instead of a brush.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  I've had worse experiences at small businesses than at medium-sized or large ones. Larger businesses get scrutinized. At small businesses, the owner looks you in the eye every day and thinks of your salary as coming directly out of his pocket.
  - duxup 4y ago
    I’ve go the opposite, but I can certainly see why it might go either way depending on the person.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
      Small companies generally aren’t subject to many labor laws, somewhere below 15 people or something? I personally get leery around the potential for working for a smaller company because you literally have less labor rights doing so.
      - zdragnar 4y ago
        Small companies tend to have stronger empathetic bonds between people. Larger companies are much more prone to treating people like cogs to be replaced when worn out. More than that, larger companies might be able to shuffle problematic employees around rather than having to outright fire them. It's a double edged blade to be sure- I've heard horror stories of bad small businesses as well- but my experience at both leaves me with a very strong preference for working for small companies.
WalterBright 4y ago
Long ago, I remember a fellow engineer who bitterly complained his employer had placed him in bondage. I asked him, why don't you quit and get a better job? He replied, you don't understand. I have bills to pay. I have no savings. My finances would collapse if I missed even one paycheck. I pointed out that he was wearing expensive clothes, he and his wife drove new cars, they owned a McMansion with expensive furniture in it. I tactlessly concluded he had placed himself in bondage, the company had nothing to do with it, and was likely completely unaware of his debt situation. He became very angry with me. Oh well, tactless Walter strikes again.
- chubs 4y ago
  That old 'victim mentality' traps people into not realising they have agency and power to improve their lives. Thanks for the comment :)
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    I frequently set my karma afire when I suggest that people have agency. I'll just channel Sam Kinison here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o one of the few comedians that made me laugh so hard it was painful and hard to breathe. May he RIP.
    - oblio 4y ago
      People have agency but one anecdote of a co-worker with bad judgment does not suddenly make everyone stuck in a miserable situation through no fault of their own, suddenly better.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        People have agency, meaning they can take responsibility for their situation (in a free country) and do something about it.
        4y ago

I think it reflects more the high degree of desperation employers are feeling with staffing -- especially in cases where they can't (or won't) raise wages. All those boomers abruptly quitting en mass during the pandemic really screwed things up for "the plan". It's time to rethink things, and this TRAP approach is rubbish.

tdeck 4y ago
Yep, that's where our sympathy should lie here. With the employers /s
- metadat 4y ago
  Not what I'm saying at all. I'd be happy to string 'em up, they're repeatedly proving to be scum to the human beings who's care and well-being said employers have been entrusted with.
- wahern 4y ago
  The relative recency of TRAPs isn't explained by "[a]ll businesses in America ultimately end up with rent-seeking and bondage." You still need a theory to understand why they weren't prevalent before. And within such a theory is where one might begin searching for a remedy, presuming one isn't so cynical that they believe achieving a remedy impossible.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > so cynical that they believe achieving a remedy impossible. It's cynical to assume that this assessment is cynical.
  - lucas_membrane 4y ago
    Ross Perot's Electronic Data Systems was doing this to programmers, etc., back in the 1970's, IIRC. The required repayment if you quit too soon was quite high, less than a year's wages, around the price of a new car, for the people I talked to who were working there.

ARandomerDude 4y ago

Hard to see how that's the case with most of the business owners I know. They are small companies with < 10 employees making a living. When you're talking about Fortune companies with 10s of thousands of employees, maybe you're right. But "all businesses in America" is painting with a massive roller instead of a brush.

pessimizer 4y ago
I've had worse experiences at small businesses than at medium-sized or large ones. Larger businesses get scrutinized. At small businesses, the owner looks you in the eye every day and thinks of your salary as coming directly out of his pocket.
- duxup 4y ago
  I’ve go the opposite, but I can certainly see why it might go either way depending on the person.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    Small companies generally aren’t subject to many labor laws, somewhere below 15 people or something? I personally get leery around the potential for working for a smaller company because you literally have less labor rights doing so.
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      Small companies tend to have stronger empathetic bonds between people. Larger companies are much more prone to treating people like cogs to be replaced when worn out. More than that, larger companies might be able to shuffle problematic employees around rather than having to outright fire them. It's a double edged blade to be sure- I've heard horror stories of bad small businesses as well- but my experience at both leaves me with a very strong preference for working for small companies.

WalterBright 4y ago

Long ago, I remember a fellow engineer who bitterly complained his employer had placed him in bondage. I asked him, why don't you quit and get a better job? He replied, you don't understand. I have bills to pay. I have no savings. My finances would collapse if I missed even one paycheck. I pointed out that he was wearing expensive clothes, he and his wife drove new cars, they owned a McMansion with expensive furniture in it. I tactlessly concluded he had placed himself in bondage, the company had nothing to do with it, and was likely completely unaware of his debt situation. He became very angry with me. Oh well, tactless Walter strikes again.

chubs 4y ago
That old 'victim mentality' traps people into not realising they have agency and power to improve their lives. Thanks for the comment :)
- WalterBright 4y ago
  I frequently set my karma afire when I suggest that people have agency. I'll just channel Sam Kinison here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o one of the few comedians that made me laugh so hard it was painful and hard to breathe. May he RIP.
  - oblio 4y ago
    People have agency but one anecdote of a co-worker with bad judgment does not suddenly make everyone stuck in a miserable situation through no fault of their own, suddenly better.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      People have agency, meaning they can take responsibility for their situation (in a free country) and do something about it.
      - 4y ago