4 ms·

Or just lie. Seems like you'd be less likely to annoy the interviewers and your potential manager. EDIT: OK, it's clearly not a good idea to even remotely sugg

Or just lie. Seems like you'd be less likely to annoy the interviewers and your potential manager. EDIT: OK, it's clearly not a good idea to even remotely suggest lying is a possible option, even as a counter to patio11's frankly far more risky suggestion. And perhaps in the name of building a better society this is the correct approach (and certainly helps prevent anyone potentially sabotaging their networking efforts on HN, which clearly is something I'm not concerned about). I hate dishonesty in general, to be clear. However, my first full time job deliberately boasted about underpaying its employees. Luckily I didn't have to state my previous salary at the next job, just my expectation. But if they had, you know what, I would have probably have inflated it 20%. Why should my first job being underpayed screw me at my next job?

billybob 15y ago
I think that's a bad idea. If you are found out, it will really damage your credibility.
- afterburner 15y ago
  This is assuming they can even find out your salary accurately. And they don't know what kind of bonus you might have received. Inflating your salary a bit is just a negotiating tactic. Considering they are sitting across from the table, trying to screw you, is it going to look that bad that you're fighting back? There's plenty of misrepresentation going on at an interview. Of all the things to fudge, previous salary seems the least unethical. I mean after all, the potential employer isn't compelled to match or better it. That said, I hate to lie. But man do I see it happen often.
  - dpritchett 15y ago
    The easiest way to assert control over this portion of the negotiation process is to refuse to focus on base salary. There's a great passage in "Being Geek" [1] that coaches you on presenting a full spectrum of compensation-related data that declaws would-be salary minimizers. In fact, the hiring company's common insistence on focusing on base salary is a bit of a shell game, much like the classic four-square worksheet seen at a used car lot [2]. Once they can get you to agree to one number, they still have room to pressure you on some of the other parts of the deal. Luckily you can do the exact same thing to them by presenting a range of demands (base, bonus, vacation, perks) without tipping your hand and letting them know which ones mean the most to you personally. It's especially helpful to be able to weigh their benefit details against your current position without having to directly disclose your salary. [1] http://www.beinggeek.com http://www.beinggeek.com [2] http://www.edmunds.com/car-loan/four-square-basics.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-loan/four-square-basics.html
    - gwillen 15y ago
      Do tech companies _ever_ negotiate those other parts of the deal? My (limited, admittedly) experience so far is that the answer is "we will under no circumstances negotiate anything but pay in a job offer." (I think I may have even been blackballed at one company recently, which I won't name but I can almost guarantee you've used their product, for asking too many questions about negotiating vacation.)
      - dpritchett 15y ago
        Say you get four weeks paid vacation at your current job and the new one's only offering two for new hires. Don't try to force them to give you four, just force them to toss you a bone to make up for the ten days per year of your life you're going to be giving up by coming to their company. I'm sure that's worth another 10-20% to both parties. Alternately, walk away if the four weeks really is a deal-breaker for you. Are the people who "can't" negotiate and who blackballed you living under the same paltry vacation package you were offered? I'm assuming you didn't ask about vacation until after they made you an offer. To do otherwise is to chase off a possible opportunity before they've committed to you. Once you've got an offer, recognize that multiple parties at the hiring company are committed to seeing the deal go through, so you have more bargaining power than you did at the "we're still deciding who our top candidate is" phase.
      - rdl 15y ago
        Equity and vacation time are really common to negotiate. Also sometimes work location, days spent working from home, and amount of travel.
- lurker17 15y ago
  You won't and it won't. The hiring manager and HR are lying to your face much more.
bphogan 15y ago
Never ever ever lie on a resume or during the interview. Really, don't do it at all if you want to be credible, but especially not during the hiring process. You're going to get caught out for it eventually. Maybe a coworker hears you talking about it at lunch or something. You never know.
- bostonvaulter2 15y ago
  What if you make an estimate of your total compensation package? (i.e. Including benefits)
- nekojima 15y ago
  I never lie on my cv or in the interview and have been overlooked because I am honest. At least in comparison to my lesser qualified classmates who've secured higher paying and more senior roles in large part because they openly lie on their cv's and in their interviews about their past experiences and even qualifications. Even though they have been caught out a few times, they still persist and get the interviews and the job offers far above the level they should be at. In my last round of interviews for a large bank, for a director level role, the senior managers expressed that I was "too honest" in their feedback to me and while I made it to the final round of three, that may have played a role in not securing the job. It may have also played a role in getting me to the final round as well... I am 100% certain that by being honest on my cv I have lost out even getting my foot in the door to interview at some great firms I'd have liked to have work for. I much prefer to be honest, but in the short, medium and likely long term, I also know it has severely hurt my earning and career potential.
  - bphogan 15y ago
    Are you confusing honest with humble? I had an intern who had a little trouble finding a gig after he graduated college because he kept downplaying his experience. Once he put his cards on the table, he got picked up quickly. And I wouldn't measure your experience against others. You don't always know what they know. Maybe they do have more direct experience than you. Or maybe they get, but don't keep, those jobs. You could always ask others you know to give you feedback on your CV. Especially people who've worked with you. Ask coworkers maybe. Or former supervisors.

billybob 15y ago

I think that's a bad idea. If you are found out, it will really damage your credibility.

afterburner 15y ago
This is assuming they can even find out your salary accurately. And they don't know what kind of bonus you might have received. Inflating your salary a bit is just a negotiating tactic. Considering they are sitting across from the table, trying to screw you, is it going to look that bad that you're fighting back? There's plenty of misrepresentation going on at an interview. Of all the things to fudge, previous salary seems the least unethical. I mean after all, the potential employer isn't compelled to match or better it. That said, I hate to lie. But man do I see it happen often.
- dpritchett 15y ago
  The easiest way to assert control over this portion of the negotiation process is to refuse to focus on base salary. There's a great passage in "Being Geek" [1] that coaches you on presenting a full spectrum of compensation-related data that declaws would-be salary minimizers. In fact, the hiring company's common insistence on focusing on base salary is a bit of a shell game, much like the classic four-square worksheet seen at a used car lot [2]. Once they can get you to agree to one number, they still have room to pressure you on some of the other parts of the deal. Luckily you can do the exact same thing to them by presenting a range of demands (base, bonus, vacation, perks) without tipping your hand and letting them know which ones mean the most to you personally. It's especially helpful to be able to weigh their benefit details against your current position without having to directly disclose your salary. [1] http://www.beinggeek.com http://www.beinggeek.com [2] http://www.edmunds.com/car-loan/four-square-basics.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-loan/four-square-basics.html
  - gwillen 15y ago
    Do tech companies _ever_ negotiate those other parts of the deal? My (limited, admittedly) experience so far is that the answer is "we will under no circumstances negotiate anything but pay in a job offer." (I think I may have even been blackballed at one company recently, which I won't name but I can almost guarantee you've used their product, for asking too many questions about negotiating vacation.)
    - dpritchett 15y ago
      Say you get four weeks paid vacation at your current job and the new one's only offering two for new hires. Don't try to force them to give you four, just force them to toss you a bone to make up for the ten days per year of your life you're going to be giving up by coming to their company. I'm sure that's worth another 10-20% to both parties. Alternately, walk away if the four weeks really is a deal-breaker for you. Are the people who "can't" negotiate and who blackballed you living under the same paltry vacation package you were offered? I'm assuming you didn't ask about vacation until after they made you an offer. To do otherwise is to chase off a possible opportunity before they've committed to you. Once you've got an offer, recognize that multiple parties at the hiring company are committed to seeing the deal go through, so you have more bargaining power than you did at the "we're still deciding who our top candidate is" phase.
    - rdl 15y ago
      Equity and vacation time are really common to negotiate. Also sometimes work location, days spent working from home, and amount of travel.
lurker17 15y ago
You won't and it won't. The hiring manager and HR are lying to your face much more.

bphogan 15y ago

Never ever ever lie on a resume or during the interview. Really, don't do it at all if you want to be credible, but especially not during the hiring process. You're going to get caught out for it eventually. Maybe a coworker hears you talking about it at lunch or something. You never know.

bostonvaulter2 15y ago
What if you make an estimate of your total compensation package? (i.e. Including benefits)
nekojima 15y ago
I never lie on my cv or in the interview and have been overlooked because I am honest. At least in comparison to my lesser qualified classmates who've secured higher paying and more senior roles in large part because they openly lie on their cv's and in their interviews about their past experiences and even qualifications. Even though they have been caught out a few times, they still persist and get the interviews and the job offers far above the level they should be at. In my last round of interviews for a large bank, for a director level role, the senior managers expressed that I was "too honest" in their feedback to me and while I made it to the final round of three, that may have played a role in not securing the job. It may have also played a role in getting me to the final round as well... I am 100% certain that by being honest on my cv I have lost out even getting my foot in the door to interview at some great firms I'd have liked to have work for. I much prefer to be honest, but in the short, medium and likely long term, I also know it has severely hurt my earning and career potential.
- bphogan 15y ago
  Are you confusing honest with humble? I had an intern who had a little trouble finding a gig after he graduated college because he kept downplaying his experience. Once he put his cards on the table, he got picked up quickly. And I wouldn't measure your experience against others. You don't always know what they know. Maybe they do have more direct experience than you. Or maybe they get, but don't keep, those jobs. You could always ask others you know to give you feedback on your CV. Especially people who've worked with you. Ask coworkers maybe. Or former supervisors.