3 ms·

I suspect that percentage varies significantly between geographic and cultural regions. Further, "normal" typically means that not only is a status common, but

I suspect that percentage varies significantly between geographic and cultural regions. Further, "normal" typically means that not only is a status common, but that it does not interfere with daily life. Even if 100% of kids have low self esteem, it is "low" and not "normal" because, by definition, it interfers with common social interactions and daily tasks.

gruez 4y ago
>Even if 100% of kids have low self esteem, it is "low" and not "normal" because, by definition, it interfers with common social interactions and daily tasks. What does "interfers with common social interactions and daily tasks" mean? It's hard to talk about self-esteem in a superlative way (you can be too cocky), so let's talk about another trait: attention. I'm sure that everyone could do better in life if they have superhuman levels of attention, but most people only have normal levels of attention. If with superhuman levels of attention you could study and get 95% on a test, but with average levels of attention you could only study enough to get 80% on a test, does that mean count as "interfering" with your academic ability? Is it just some arbitrary grade cut-off? What if you're so attention deficient that you can't focus on a task for more than 10 minutes, but it's fine because you also happen to be a genius that only needs 10 minutes of studying to get 80%?
- zdragnar 4y ago
  There are formal definitions for attention deficit disorder, no need for the contrived example.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >There are formal definitions for attention deficit disorder Have you looked at the DSM-5? The wording there is vaguer than you think. For instance >1. Inattention: Six (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is inconsistent with developmental level and that negatively impacts directly on social and academic/occupational activities: > a. Often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, at work, or during other activities (e.g., overlooks or misses details, work is inaccurate). What does "negatively impacts" mean? What does "often" mean? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/
  - banannaise 4y ago
    A lot of ADHD/autistic folks (including me) will note that a primary frustration with the DSM-5 is that it defines our conditions in terms of the things that frustrate other people rather than in terms of what we actually experience and how it affects us. Lots of our behaviors "interfere with common social interactions"... if that interaction is with a neurotypical person who expects us to conform to their values. Differences in values and communication style are framed as something diseased that we need to change, rather than something different where we need to create mutual understandings.

gruez 4y ago

>Even if 100% of kids have low self esteem, it is "low" and not "normal" because, by definition, it interfers with common social interactions and daily tasks. What does "interfers with common social interactions and daily tasks" mean? It's hard to talk about self-esteem in a superlative way (you can be too cocky), so let's talk about another trait: attention. I'm sure that everyone could do better in life if they have superhuman levels of attention, but most people only have normal levels of attention. If with superhuman levels of attention you could study and get 95% on a test, but with average levels of attention you could only study enough to get 80% on a test, does that mean count as "interfering" with your academic ability? Is it just some arbitrary grade cut-off? What if you're so attention deficient that you can't focus on a task for more than 10 minutes, but it's fine because you also happen to be a genius that only needs 10 minutes of studying to get 80%?

zdragnar 4y ago
There are formal definitions for attention deficit disorder, no need for the contrived example.
- gruez 4y ago
  >There are formal definitions for attention deficit disorder Have you looked at the DSM-5? The wording there is vaguer than you think. For instance >1. Inattention: Six (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is inconsistent with developmental level and that negatively impacts directly on social and academic/occupational activities: > a. Often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, at work, or during other activities (e.g., overlooks or misses details, work is inaccurate). What does "negatively impacts" mean? What does "often" mean? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/
- banannaise 4y ago
  A lot of ADHD/autistic folks (including me) will note that a primary frustration with the DSM-5 is that it defines our conditions in terms of the things that frustrate other people rather than in terms of what we actually experience and how it affects us. Lots of our behaviors "interfere with common social interactions"... if that interaction is with a neurotypical person who expects us to conform to their values. Differences in values and communication style are framed as something diseased that we need to change, rather than something different where we need to create mutual understandings.