4 ms·

Any German person I spoke to has a deep feeling of responsibility for WW2. Even today, even younger generations. Believe it or not it makes the society stronger

Any German person I spoke to has a deep feeling of responsibility for WW2. Even today, even younger generations. Believe it or not it makes the society stronger. Russia is far away from that. Being liked is a privilege you have to earn. Thinking you are owed nuanced, friendly treatment is a bit naive after what russia has done.

cpursley 4y ago
You avoided my question: Is bigotry against all Russians justified? If so, you have more in common with Azov than traditional Western values.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  Some measures (like the visa ban) are justified. Telling them what you think - sure. Unjustified violence obviously not.
  - gdy 4y ago
    And how is visa ban justified? Just curious how you would manage to avoid the words 'collective guilt'.
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      1. Why would I need to avoid it? 2. Visas are not a right, but a privilege. 3. Skripal case.
      - gdy 4y ago
        "Why would I need to avoid it?" Because it's a slippery slope to collective punishment. "This is a telling slip; Lewy is talking about ‘the Armenians’ as if the defenceless women and children who comprised the deportation columns were vicariously responsible for Armenian rebels in other parts of the country. The collective guilt accusation is unacceptable in scholarship, let alone in normal discourse and is, I think, one of the key ingredients in genocidal thinking. It fails to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, on which international humanitarian law has been insisting for over a hundred years now." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility
        jevgeni 4y ago
        Life is a slippery slope towards death. Collective responsibility seems to have worked for post-WW2 Germany though. And made the society as a whole stronger. Denying visas is not "failing to recognize between combatants and non-combatants". It is denying a privilege that the russian government has messed up for their own citizens. EU or USA don't owe you anything. The russian government does. Personally, I have zero interest in letting someone into my country for them later to claim that learning my language is "nazism".
        cpursley 4y ago
        I'll ask again, my country (USA) has killed millions of innocent people since 1991. If we're keeping tally, that's a whole lot more than the modern Russian state in the same time period. Should Americans (including me) collectively be punished for this (of those of us like me who were actively against it)?
        jevgeni 4y ago
        Do you feel entitled to a comfy holiday in Kabul?
        gdy 4y ago
        Taliban was at war with the US. Is the EU at war with Russia? Maybe you should stop buying Russian oil and gas right now? Trading with the enemy, you know. Financing Putin's government.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        Don't the russians claim they are at war with whole of NATO? And by the way, thank you for this push, now we'll finally ween Germany of its russian gas dependency.
        gdy 4y ago
  - cpursley 4y ago
    My country (USA) has killed more people than Russia in invasions in the last 30 years. As a US citizen by birth (zero control), should my visa/passport also be banned?

cpursley 4y ago

You avoided my question: Is bigotry against all Russians justified? If so, you have more in common with Azov than traditional Western values.

jevgeni 4y ago
Some measures (like the visa ban) are justified. Telling them what you think - sure. Unjustified violence obviously not.
- gdy 4y ago
  And how is visa ban justified? Just curious how you would manage to avoid the words 'collective guilt'.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    1. Why would I need to avoid it? 2. Visas are not a right, but a privilege. 3. Skripal case.
    - gdy 4y ago
      "Why would I need to avoid it?" Because it's a slippery slope to collective punishment. "This is a telling slip; Lewy is talking about ‘the Armenians’ as if the defenceless women and children who comprised the deportation columns were vicariously responsible for Armenian rebels in other parts of the country. The collective guilt accusation is unacceptable in scholarship, let alone in normal discourse and is, I think, one of the key ingredients in genocidal thinking. It fails to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, on which international humanitarian law has been insisting for over a hundred years now." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility
      - jevgeni 4y ago
        Life is a slippery slope towards death. Collective responsibility seems to have worked for post-WW2 Germany though. And made the society as a whole stronger. Denying visas is not "failing to recognize between combatants and non-combatants". It is denying a privilege that the russian government has messed up for their own citizens. EU or USA don't owe you anything. The russian government does. Personally, I have zero interest in letting someone into my country for them later to claim that learning my language is "nazism".
        cpursley 4y ago
        I'll ask again, my country (USA) has killed millions of innocent people since 1991. If we're keeping tally, that's a whole lot more than the modern Russian state in the same time period. Should Americans (including me) collectively be punished for this (of those of us like me who were actively against it)?
        jevgeni 4y ago
        Do you feel entitled to a comfy holiday in Kabul?
        gdy 4y ago
        Taliban was at war with the US. Is the EU at war with Russia? Maybe you should stop buying Russian oil and gas right now? Trading with the enemy, you know. Financing Putin's government.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        Don't the russians claim they are at war with whole of NATO? And by the way, thank you for this push, now we'll finally ween Germany of its russian gas dependency.
        gdy 4y ago
- cpursley 4y ago
  My country (USA) has killed more people than Russia in invasions in the last 30 years. As a US citizen by birth (zero control), should my visa/passport also be banned?