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To be cancelled you have to first be part of acceptable society and want to remain there, which Crumb never was and never wanted to be. He's a creep who likes t

To be cancelled you have to first be part of acceptable society and want to remain there, which Crumb never was and never wanted to be. He's a creep who likes to make interesting cartoons, even if they are filled with misogyny and bitterness. He comes from a creepy family, which the film "Crumb" makes clear with Crumb's blessing. He's doing alright considering.

Lammy 4y ago
> even if they are filled with misogyny "This is not a fantasy. They dwell among us!" https://i.imgur.com/9tituT7.png https://i.imgur.com/9tituT7.png
- noduerme 4y ago
  But it's funny. And how is it misogynistic? Misogyny means "hatred of women". As far as I can tell, he loves them, in his own strange way. Objectifying someone's physical attributes can go two ways. It can come from a place of hate, but it can also come from a place of obsessive love. I think people see their own worst selves when they look at Crumb. His only crime is being honest enough to draw the dirty jokes that go through his mind. But this isn't a commentary on women, let alone a statement of hate. He's observing himself, from a distance, and unafraid to write and draw what he sees, regardless of how people think it reflects on him. He's always displayed a total rejection of ego... and it's just ego and hypocrisy which drives his critics.
  - function_seven 4y ago
    Agreed. That diagram was downright wholesome. Appreciation for a woman’s body that doesn’t conform to typical beauty norms is, like, the opposite of misogyny.
  - badpun 4y ago
    > But it's funny. And how is it misogynistic? Misogyny means "hatred of women". As far as I can tell, he loves them, in his own strange way. I think that was the point of the OP. Crumb is clearly fascinated and taken by women.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    I think this is the crux many people fail to understand: obsessive love is bad, too, if it is non-consensual. I think it's not entirely fair to describe Crumb's work as misogynist as it's intentionally so broadly obscene that singling out his portrayal of women feels incomplete and reductive. Crumb is misogynist in that he clearly sees women as an "other" and objectifies them by obsessing about features he finds arousing and grotesquely stylizing those he dislikes. But unless you're specifically trying to write an academic paper on his portrayal of women, I don't think pointing out that his view on women is problematic is very insightful or helpful. It's like pointing out the shoddy insulation of a house that's already completely engulfed in flames. Yes, the insulation is bad and maybe you can reclaim some of the rent from your landlord or sue the builders, but the entire house is burning down so who cares. Crumb's work is a trash fire. The only question is what merit it has once you can get past the noxious fumes.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      Obsessive love is bad if it leads to bad outcomes, but Crumb himself has been happily married for decades. It seems very judgmental to pile on criticism of the style of someone's obsession - when most of his own work is devoted to disentangling those obsessions. It's also unkind to pronounce his work a "trash fire". Surrounded by hypocrites who don't have the self-reflection, intellectual honesty, or skill to reveal their inner dichotomies and turmoil, who are we to criticize someone for trying to download their inner mess to the rest of us? Sure, he's an easy target, but it's obnoxiously priggish to deride the one guy who puts it in print while you and your neighbors have the same or worse obsessions that cannot be spoken or named.
      - hnbad 4y ago
        I don't see a difference between me calling it a trash fire and you calling it his "inner mess". His work is intentionally jarring and offensive. I think the more important aspect of my metaphor is that while these "noxious fumes" clearly create a barrier for his work, that doesn't mean there's nothing valuable within. It just means that it's harder to find out.

Lammy 4y ago

> even if they are filled with misogyny "This is not a fantasy. They dwell among us!" https://i.imgur.com/9tituT7.png https://i.imgur.com/9tituT7.png

noduerme 4y ago
But it's funny. And how is it misogynistic? Misogyny means "hatred of women". As far as I can tell, he loves them, in his own strange way. Objectifying someone's physical attributes can go two ways. It can come from a place of hate, but it can also come from a place of obsessive love. I think people see their own worst selves when they look at Crumb. His only crime is being honest enough to draw the dirty jokes that go through his mind. But this isn't a commentary on women, let alone a statement of hate. He's observing himself, from a distance, and unafraid to write and draw what he sees, regardless of how people think it reflects on him. He's always displayed a total rejection of ego... and it's just ego and hypocrisy which drives his critics.
- function_seven 4y ago
  Agreed. That diagram was downright wholesome. Appreciation for a woman’s body that doesn’t conform to typical beauty norms is, like, the opposite of misogyny.
- badpun 4y ago
  > But it's funny. And how is it misogynistic? Misogyny means "hatred of women". As far as I can tell, he loves them, in his own strange way. I think that was the point of the OP. Crumb is clearly fascinated and taken by women.
- hnbad 4y ago
  I think this is the crux many people fail to understand: obsessive love is bad, too, if it is non-consensual. I think it's not entirely fair to describe Crumb's work as misogynist as it's intentionally so broadly obscene that singling out his portrayal of women feels incomplete and reductive. Crumb is misogynist in that he clearly sees women as an "other" and objectifies them by obsessing about features he finds arousing and grotesquely stylizing those he dislikes. But unless you're specifically trying to write an academic paper on his portrayal of women, I don't think pointing out that his view on women is problematic is very insightful or helpful. It's like pointing out the shoddy insulation of a house that's already completely engulfed in flames. Yes, the insulation is bad and maybe you can reclaim some of the rent from your landlord or sue the builders, but the entire house is burning down so who cares. Crumb's work is a trash fire. The only question is what merit it has once you can get past the noxious fumes.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    Obsessive love is bad if it leads to bad outcomes, but Crumb himself has been happily married for decades. It seems very judgmental to pile on criticism of the style of someone's obsession - when most of his own work is devoted to disentangling those obsessions. It's also unkind to pronounce his work a "trash fire". Surrounded by hypocrites who don't have the self-reflection, intellectual honesty, or skill to reveal their inner dichotomies and turmoil, who are we to criticize someone for trying to download their inner mess to the rest of us? Sure, he's an easy target, but it's obnoxiously priggish to deride the one guy who puts it in print while you and your neighbors have the same or worse obsessions that cannot be spoken or named.
    - hnbad 4y ago
      I don't see a difference between me calling it a trash fire and you calling it his "inner mess". His work is intentionally jarring and offensive. I think the more important aspect of my metaphor is that while these "noxious fumes" clearly create a barrier for his work, that doesn't mean there's nothing valuable within. It just means that it's harder to find out.