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Many of the reasons mental illness makes homelessness more likely have to do with difficulty keeping steady employment or lacking the executive function and pre

Many of the reasons mental illness makes homelessness more likely have to do with difficulty keeping steady employment or lacking the executive function and presence of mind to manage finances. Yes, some people are so detached that they would wander parks and such anyway. But many, many people would be kept out of homelessness if they only had a little help with a place to live, some life management issues, or both.

_-david-_ 4y ago
Some people are advocating just giving homeless people housing and then saying homelessness is solved. I'm not suggesting you are advocating for that, I just was attempting to be clear that something more than just providing housing needs to be done.
- bombcar 4y ago
  “Giving homes” also doesn’t necessarily mean assign an apartment to everyone. Imagine “jails” that anyone can check into at any time, without being arrested or even accused. But deeper runs a fundamental issue - if the only tools you have are fines and jail time, how do you punish someone for minor crimes if they have no money or possessions? And let’s not dance around it, forcing someone to do something they do not want to do is a form of punishment, even if they profusely thank you afterwards.
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    >“Giving homes” also doesn’t necessarily mean assign an apartment to everyone. >Imagine “jails” that anyone can check into at any time, without being arrested or even accused. OK? Not sure what that has to do with anything? If somebody wants shelter they can get it. Just because it isn't some great apartment doesn't mean that it is not housing. >But deeper runs a fundamental issue - if the only tools you have are fines and jail time, how do you punish someone for minor crimes if they have no money or possessions? I'm not advocating for only jail or fines. Maybe you are replying go the wrong person? >And let’s not dance around it, forcing someone to do something they do not want to do is a form of punishment, even if they profusely thank you afterwards. Not always. If a parent forces their child to go to school is that a punishment?
- cestith 4y ago
  Call me a dreamer, but I believe in actually providing people the support they need to live if they are failing to make a go at it on their own. If that's some basic housing, so be it. If it's job training, great - we can use a more skilled workforce. If it's household management training, cool. If they need someone to make their budget and check in that they're following it, why can't a county office or university extension office help? If they need outpatient medical care - and mental health is health - then they should have access. If they need a support group or a sponsor to remind them to do things, or to take their meds, that's great for them to have. Maybe a lot of this the IT field could help scale, but it would take some number of people and some amount of funds. By criminalizing homelessness and blaming homelessness on mental illness, we're quite literally criminalizing being ill. We're falling for the Evangelical argument that bad things happen mostly to evil people. We're also spending more money making people full wards of the state who with a little bit of help here and there often can work and pay some taxes instead of sleeping in a heavily secured jail. People are like anything else that needs maintenance. You can invest up front and then invest a bit along the way, or you can let everything go wrong and spend a lot more to address the deficiencies you've clearly allowed. Some of that damage, just as with an ICE engine out of oil, may be permanent or even unrecoverable in cases where that didn't need to be the case.
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    >Call me a dreamer, but I believe in actually providing people the support they need to live if they are failing to make a go at it on their own... I'm not saying anything different than you. I am just critical of people think the only thing that needs to be done is just giving housing and maybe paying some of their bills then declaring victory over homelessness. That may be all the help a small minority of the homelessness, but doesn't really solve the issue of why the majority were homeless. We need rehab for those with addictions and we need mental care for those with mental issues. While these homeless are getting treated and for sometime after they likely need housing and food and whatever else you mentioned. >By criminalizing homelessness and blaming homelessness on mental illness, we're quite literally criminalizing being ill. The majority of homeless people have a severe mental issue, substance abuse problem or both. They are literally unable to solve their problems and just giving them housing won't suddenly fix addiction. Most don't take advantage of the existing services and so we are left with two choices. Let them live their lives as homeless stuck with whatever problems they have or force treatment on them. I am in the second camp. We need a comprehensive solution to fix this and we have the opportunity to help them. Letting them live on the street and never be free from their issues is awful. >We're falling for the Evangelical argument that bad things happen mostly to evil people. I don't think I have seen anybody suggest that people with illnesses are evil, or that bad things happen to evil people or homelessness is evil or anything of the sort. I think it is wrong to not provide help to those who need it. Many homeless people need help but are unable to ask themselves due to issues many of them experience. I think it is on us, as a society, to help them regardless. >We're also spending more money making people full wards of the state who with a little bit of help here and there often can work and pay some taxes instead of sleeping in a heavily secured jail. You are grossly underestimating the help many homeless need. I think this is crux of the disagreement. Some may just need a little help, great we can provide that. Others need more than that and yet you don't seem to want to provide that help. Do you think there would be no homeless if we just provided "a little bit of help here and there"? >People are like anything else that needs maintenance... Sure we should provide preventative services, but that doesn't solve the problem for people who need a lot of work. Some people are well past needing a little maintenance need a full refit. Some people are "lemons" and even some maintenance won't prevent their problems.

_-david-_ 4y ago

Some people are advocating just giving homeless people housing and then saying homelessness is solved. I'm not suggesting you are advocating for that, I just was attempting to be clear that something more than just providing housing needs to be done.

bombcar 4y ago
“Giving homes” also doesn’t necessarily mean assign an apartment to everyone. Imagine “jails” that anyone can check into at any time, without being arrested or even accused. But deeper runs a fundamental issue - if the only tools you have are fines and jail time, how do you punish someone for minor crimes if they have no money or possessions? And let’s not dance around it, forcing someone to do something they do not want to do is a form of punishment, even if they profusely thank you afterwards.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  >“Giving homes” also doesn’t necessarily mean assign an apartment to everyone. >Imagine “jails” that anyone can check into at any time, without being arrested or even accused. OK? Not sure what that has to do with anything? If somebody wants shelter they can get it. Just because it isn't some great apartment doesn't mean that it is not housing. >But deeper runs a fundamental issue - if the only tools you have are fines and jail time, how do you punish someone for minor crimes if they have no money or possessions? I'm not advocating for only jail or fines. Maybe you are replying go the wrong person? >And let’s not dance around it, forcing someone to do something they do not want to do is a form of punishment, even if they profusely thank you afterwards. Not always. If a parent forces their child to go to school is that a punishment?
cestith 4y ago
Call me a dreamer, but I believe in actually providing people the support they need to live if they are failing to make a go at it on their own. If that's some basic housing, so be it. If it's job training, great - we can use a more skilled workforce. If it's household management training, cool. If they need someone to make their budget and check in that they're following it, why can't a county office or university extension office help? If they need outpatient medical care - and mental health is health - then they should have access. If they need a support group or a sponsor to remind them to do things, or to take their meds, that's great for them to have. Maybe a lot of this the IT field could help scale, but it would take some number of people and some amount of funds. By criminalizing homelessness and blaming homelessness on mental illness, we're quite literally criminalizing being ill. We're falling for the Evangelical argument that bad things happen mostly to evil people. We're also spending more money making people full wards of the state who with a little bit of help here and there often can work and pay some taxes instead of sleeping in a heavily secured jail. People are like anything else that needs maintenance. You can invest up front and then invest a bit along the way, or you can let everything go wrong and spend a lot more to address the deficiencies you've clearly allowed. Some of that damage, just as with an ICE engine out of oil, may be permanent or even unrecoverable in cases where that didn't need to be the case.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  >Call me a dreamer, but I believe in actually providing people the support they need to live if they are failing to make a go at it on their own... I'm not saying anything different than you. I am just critical of people think the only thing that needs to be done is just giving housing and maybe paying some of their bills then declaring victory over homelessness. That may be all the help a small minority of the homelessness, but doesn't really solve the issue of why the majority were homeless. We need rehab for those with addictions and we need mental care for those with mental issues. While these homeless are getting treated and for sometime after they likely need housing and food and whatever else you mentioned. >By criminalizing homelessness and blaming homelessness on mental illness, we're quite literally criminalizing being ill. The majority of homeless people have a severe mental issue, substance abuse problem or both. They are literally unable to solve their problems and just giving them housing won't suddenly fix addiction. Most don't take advantage of the existing services and so we are left with two choices. Let them live their lives as homeless stuck with whatever problems they have or force treatment on them. I am in the second camp. We need a comprehensive solution to fix this and we have the opportunity to help them. Letting them live on the street and never be free from their issues is awful. >We're falling for the Evangelical argument that bad things happen mostly to evil people. I don't think I have seen anybody suggest that people with illnesses are evil, or that bad things happen to evil people or homelessness is evil or anything of the sort. I think it is wrong to not provide help to those who need it. Many homeless people need help but are unable to ask themselves due to issues many of them experience. I think it is on us, as a society, to help them regardless. >We're also spending more money making people full wards of the state who with a little bit of help here and there often can work and pay some taxes instead of sleeping in a heavily secured jail. You are grossly underestimating the help many homeless need. I think this is crux of the disagreement. Some may just need a little help, great we can provide that. Others need more than that and yet you don't seem to want to provide that help. Do you think there would be no homeless if we just provided "a little bit of help here and there"? >People are like anything else that needs maintenance... Sure we should provide preventative services, but that doesn't solve the problem for people who need a lot of work. Some people are well past needing a little maintenance need a full refit. Some people are "lemons" and even some maintenance won't prevent their problems.