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> Forget satellite SOS and the larger camera, the headline is this: Apple has completely redesigned the internals of the iPhone 14 to make it easier to repair.

by mrtksn 4y ago

> Forget satellite SOS and the larger camera, the headline is this: Apple has completely redesigned the internals of the iPhone 14 to make it easier to repair. I find this line hilarious because it's an example of law of the instrument[0]. iFixit and other activist repair shops treat these devices as if their(the iPhones) purpose is getting a repair and all this talk over they years about iPhone repairability was from that standpoint. I'm happy that Apple is making the new iPhones easier to repair but I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it. Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? What I expect is that it would never need a repair and if it needs a repair the vendor will handle it. Also, iPhones were always the easiest phones to repair because specialists who repair iPhones could be found on every corner. Every repair shop repairs iPhones, so repairing an iPhone was never a real issue but something that repair nerds like to speculate on. It's almost as if the happiest they could have been if Apple shipped the iPhones broken but easy to repair using some cheap generic part. I had my iPhones replaced, repaired or self services by buying the parts online through the years. It's no accident that iPhones always were best at retaining second hand value. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument

jorvi 4y ago
> Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? I guess Framework laptops must have a hidden compartment full of gold, because they keep selling like hotcakes.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  How many millions of laptops they have sold so far? Are they selling over 10 million a year thanks to the superb repairability? I like Framework, it's nice concept and if I had a few thousand dollars expandable money I would definitely buy one to fiddle with.
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    Not yet, but they are still scaling. Is that your measure of success? 10 million units?
    - mrtksn 4y ago
      Success on what? If I measure repairability success would look like Framework laptops, if I measure mainstream adoption success would look like Apple/Dell/Samsung, if I measure for longevity and versatility success would look like Apple/Thinkpad, if I measure for refined design success would look like Apple. There are many ways to be successful.
  - dota_fanatic 4y ago
    You're moving the goalposts. > Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? What I expect is that it would never need a repair and if it needs a repair the vendor will handle it. Because people value reparability, which someone posted evidence for. Buying a computing device that you can use and depend on for decades is a laudable goal, and reparability is table stakes for that goal because stuff breaks.
    - mrtksn 4y ago
      IMHO Framework's value comes from modularity, repairability is just a perk of modularity. I like it but it comes at cost of design features like thickness, weight or robustness.
- lake_vincent 4y ago
  As a happy Framework user, the selling point for me is upgrading, not repairing, the device. To be able upgrade to a new mobo, processor, memory module, or port, without having to buy a whole new device is incredible. As such, I am not planning on buying a new laptop for a loooong time. Clearly the iPhone is not taking that approach - it's repair only, which is not nearly as exciting.
originalvichy 4y ago
iFixIt and others come from an era were smartphones were in the small space between repairable and expensive to replace. Like small laptops. Sure after years of specialization many shops offer quick fixes but it didn’t use to be that way. Sure you will never repair your phone but when and if it needs fixing the more accessible repairs are the better it is for the wallet and quality of work.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  I went from Ericsson(GH688, T10) to Alcatel to Nokia to Siemens to iPhone 4s and have been using iPhones since then. At what point was the timeframe when you threw away your iPhone because was not possible to repair on a high street repair shop? I never had and I don't know anyone who ever had an issue with repairing their iPhone. Was it at the iPhone 3G years? My last repair was getting the battery and the front glass of my iPhone 6s that I still use as a secondary phone replaced. It cost me about 50$ if I recall correctly.
outworlder 4y ago
> but I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it We all expect our devices to work forever and never break while we are still using them. Yes, Apple handles the repairs, but they are _expensive_. If you are not in the US, chances are that some 'authorized' third party will repair it. So now you are into 'expensive' and potentially dodgy territory. I've seen substandard repairs over the years. One common issue is that a repair is done but FaceID (or Touch ID) no longer works. Repair shops manage to repair some things but many repairs are not economically viable. A phone that's easy to repair is also cheaper to repair. Case in point: you have to take your phone to a repair shop to replace the battery (unless you are pretty handy yourself). That costs money. When phones had removable batteries, repair labor cost was $0. Just get a new battery and replace yourself, in seconds.
newaccount74 4y ago
I think you are wrong, people think a lot about repair costs, which is why Apple Care sells so good. If people didn't think of repair, why would they buy Apple Care? When the back glass on my iPhone X broke, I stopped buying iPhones. Authorized service providers would have charged more for repairing the device than it costs on the second hand market, and 3rd party repair shops would probably do a half assed job because it is so difficult to do. It's really ridiculous that the part that breaks most easily is hardest to repair. I ended up buying an Android with a plastic back, and I kind of hate some parts of it, but I also hate that iPhones are so fucking fragile.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  > I think you are wrong, people think a lot about repair costs, which is why Apple Care sells so good Good point but I think this is more like an insurance because accidents happen. People also buy cases and screen protectors so they are definitely aware that these things can break but the plan is always not to break it. No one really cares if that the device would be hard or easy to repair as long as they know that repair is a thing and it is a thing because people see the shops on the high street, know apple store fixes broken iPhones or know people who got their devices repaired. Hard or easy to repair is not very relevant to most people because they wouldn't care how much effort took the technician to do their job.
deathanatos 4y ago
> I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it. Devices don't last forever. What happens when inevitably, it fails? I don't want to be buying a new iPhone all the time — money still doesn't grow on trees — and even outside of Apple's ridiculously overpriced products, replacing e.g., my entire laptop¹ because a component failed is not enticing. Better if the design permits a $5 replacement, instead of a $70 or $700 replacement. And as an engineer, it hurts when you know a small change to the design could have made the repair $5 instead of $75, without impacting anything on the manufacturer's end — except, of course, the amount they're getting manufacturing replacement parts nobody needs! Not to mention the e-waste generated by re-manufacturing then entire device just to fix a single component. > What I expect is that it would never need a repair Alas, stuff breaks. Such is the world. > and if it needs a repair the vendor will handle it. … well, good luck finding such a vendor. Apple, in particular, does not offer compelling warranties. (Though IME warranties have shrunk across most vendors. Which is a proxy for quality: the manufacturer themselves don't think their device can withstand more than 1 or 2 years at most.) ¹phones are, unfortunately, extremely limited in what you can repair with almost any model on the market today. It's a shame.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  Apple devices last forever, it's pretty common to give the old devices to your parents or sell them - the Apple device market is very vibrant because they last. By the time that the device would fail due to wear and tear you probably wouldn't want to use it anyway. You may remind me about design failures of Apple where the devices would break down but Apple does repair programs or recalls when something like that happens. That's also why we have warranties.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    > Apple does repair programs or recalls when something like that happens Usually those repair programs are limited to a few years after purchase. I still have a 2015 MBP where the reflective coating is damaged (screen looks really bad) but it only got bad after the repair program has expired. I also had a 2016 MBP (gave it to a relative) but I'm scared that the flex cable or the keyboard are going to fail and repair is going to be too expensive and Apple won't fix it because it is too old.
dang 4y ago
This comment was originally a reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32899758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32899758, but that was a bad comment and I'm going to mark it offtopic and downweight it. Your comment is fine, so I'm going to detach it so it doesn't get downweighted by proxy.
dvdkon 4y ago
> I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it The last two laptops I bought, repairability was a very high priority. The T440s I had before my current HP Envy x360 I actually bought because I got burned with a cheap Acer, where I couldn't find any replacement touchpads. A less repairable laptop wouldn't have lasted me even two years, since I broke the display around that time. At first, I wanted to buy a used enterprise laptop, since they often have repair guides available and parts can be found on eBay. However, HP made the repair guide and parts for this "consumer-grade" notebook available officially, which gave me the confidence that this laptop could last me five years or more. I think people who expect their electronics to last more than the length of a warranty should definitely consider repairability to be a big factor. You don't want to buy a beefy laptop for the next decade, only to have it made useless by a broken keyboard or screen.
- fomine3 4y ago
  Yeah repair guide for enterprise laptop indicates that enterprises cares about reparability

by mrtksn 4y ago

jorvi 4y ago

> Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? I guess Framework laptops must have a hidden compartment full of gold, because they keep selling like hotcakes.

mrtksn 4y ago
How many millions of laptops they have sold so far? Are they selling over 10 million a year thanks to the superb repairability? I like Framework, it's nice concept and if I had a few thousand dollars expandable money I would definitely buy one to fiddle with.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  Not yet, but they are still scaling. Is that your measure of success? 10 million units?
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    Success on what? If I measure repairability success would look like Framework laptops, if I measure mainstream adoption success would look like Apple/Dell/Samsung, if I measure for longevity and versatility success would look like Apple/Thinkpad, if I measure for refined design success would look like Apple. There are many ways to be successful.
- dota_fanatic 4y ago
  You're moving the goalposts. > Why would anyone try to sell me a device by talking about how easy it is to repair it? What I expect is that it would never need a repair and if it needs a repair the vendor will handle it. Because people value reparability, which someone posted evidence for. Buying a computing device that you can use and depend on for decades is a laudable goal, and reparability is table stakes for that goal because stuff breaks.
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    IMHO Framework's value comes from modularity, repairability is just a perk of modularity. I like it but it comes at cost of design features like thickness, weight or robustness.
lake_vincent 4y ago
As a happy Framework user, the selling point for me is upgrading, not repairing, the device. To be able upgrade to a new mobo, processor, memory module, or port, without having to buy a whole new device is incredible. As such, I am not planning on buying a new laptop for a loooong time. Clearly the iPhone is not taking that approach - it's repair only, which is not nearly as exciting.

originalvichy 4y ago

iFixIt and others come from an era were smartphones were in the small space between repairable and expensive to replace. Like small laptops. Sure after years of specialization many shops offer quick fixes but it didn’t use to be that way. Sure you will never repair your phone but when and if it needs fixing the more accessible repairs are the better it is for the wallet and quality of work.

mrtksn 4y ago
I went from Ericsson(GH688, T10) to Alcatel to Nokia to Siemens to iPhone 4s and have been using iPhones since then. At what point was the timeframe when you threw away your iPhone because was not possible to repair on a high street repair shop? I never had and I don't know anyone who ever had an issue with repairing their iPhone. Was it at the iPhone 3G years? My last repair was getting the battery and the front glass of my iPhone 6s that I still use as a secondary phone replaced. It cost me about 50$ if I recall correctly.

outworlder 4y ago

> but I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it We all expect our devices to work forever and never break while we are still using them. Yes, Apple handles the repairs, but they are _expensive_. If you are not in the US, chances are that some 'authorized' third party will repair it. So now you are into 'expensive' and potentially dodgy territory. I've seen substandard repairs over the years. One common issue is that a repair is done but FaceID (or Touch ID) no longer works. Repair shops manage to repair some things but many repairs are not economically viable. A phone that's easy to repair is also cheaper to repair. Case in point: you have to take your phone to a repair shop to replace the battery (unless you are pretty handy yourself). That costs money. When phones had removable batteries, repair labor cost was $0. Just get a new battery and replace yourself, in seconds.

newaccount74 4y ago

I think you are wrong, people think a lot about repair costs, which is why Apple Care sells so good. If people didn't think of repair, why would they buy Apple Care? When the back glass on my iPhone X broke, I stopped buying iPhones. Authorized service providers would have charged more for repairing the device than it costs on the second hand market, and 3rd party repair shops would probably do a half assed job because it is so difficult to do. It's really ridiculous that the part that breaks most easily is hardest to repair. I ended up buying an Android with a plastic back, and I kind of hate some parts of it, but I also hate that iPhones are so fucking fragile.

mrtksn 4y ago
> I think you are wrong, people think a lot about repair costs, which is why Apple Care sells so good Good point but I think this is more like an insurance because accidents happen. People also buy cases and screen protectors so they are definitely aware that these things can break but the plan is always not to break it. No one really cares if that the device would be hard or easy to repair as long as they know that repair is a thing and it is a thing because people see the shops on the high street, know apple store fixes broken iPhones or know people who got their devices repaired. Hard or easy to repair is not very relevant to most people because they wouldn't care how much effort took the technician to do their job.

deathanatos 4y ago

> I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it. Devices don't last forever. What happens when inevitably, it fails? I don't want to be buying a new iPhone all the time — money still doesn't grow on trees — and even outside of Apple's ridiculously overpriced products, replacing e.g., my entire laptop¹ because a component failed is not enticing. Better if the design permits a $5 replacement, instead of a $70 or $700 replacement. And as an engineer, it hurts when you know a small change to the design could have made the repair $5 instead of $75, without impacting anything on the manufacturer's end — except, of course, the amount they're getting manufacturing replacement parts nobody needs! Not to mention the e-waste generated by re-manufacturing then entire device just to fix a single component. > What I expect is that it would never need a repair Alas, stuff breaks. Such is the world. > and if it needs a repair the vendor will handle it. … well, good luck finding such a vendor. Apple, in particular, does not offer compelling warranties. (Though IME warranties have shrunk across most vendors. Which is a proxy for quality: the manufacturer themselves don't think their device can withstand more than 1 or 2 years at most.) ¹phones are, unfortunately, extremely limited in what you can repair with almost any model on the market today. It's a shame.

mrtksn 4y ago
Apple devices last forever, it's pretty common to give the old devices to your parents or sell them - the Apple device market is very vibrant because they last. By the time that the device would fail due to wear and tear you probably wouldn't want to use it anyway. You may remind me about design failures of Apple where the devices would break down but Apple does repair programs or recalls when something like that happens. That's also why we have warranties.
- newaccount74 4y ago
  > Apple does repair programs or recalls when something like that happens Usually those repair programs are limited to a few years after purchase. I still have a 2015 MBP where the reflective coating is damaged (screen looks really bad) but it only got bad after the repair program has expired. I also had a 2016 MBP (gave it to a relative) but I'm scared that the flex cable or the keyboard are going to fail and repair is going to be too expensive and Apple won't fix it because it is too old.

dang 4y ago

This comment was originally a reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32899758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32899758, but that was a bad comment and I'm going to mark it offtopic and downweight it. Your comment is fine, so I'm going to detach it so it doesn't get downweighted by proxy.

dvdkon 4y ago

> I never in my life purchased a brand new device with intention or plan to repair it The last two laptops I bought, repairability was a very high priority. The T440s I had before my current HP Envy x360 I actually bought because I got burned with a cheap Acer, where I couldn't find any replacement touchpads. A less repairable laptop wouldn't have lasted me even two years, since I broke the display around that time. At first, I wanted to buy a used enterprise laptop, since they often have repair guides available and parts can be found on eBay. However, HP made the repair guide and parts for this "consumer-grade" notebook available officially, which gave me the confidence that this laptop could last me five years or more. I think people who expect their electronics to last more than the length of a warranty should definitely consider repairability to be a big factor. You don't want to buy a beefy laptop for the next decade, only to have it made useless by a broken keyboard or screen.

fomine3 4y ago
Yeah repair guide for enterprise laptop indicates that enterprises cares about reparability