8 ms·

So at which percentage of the population should you start to respect the culture of minorities? I'll make it even easier. Go to any LOCAL government website in

So at which percentage of the population should you start to respect the culture of minorities? I'll make it even easier. Go to any LOCAL government website in Russia where there is a concentration of these ethnic minorities and find me a version in their language. Good examples of treatment of minorities are Finland with their treatment of the Swedish minorities there.

cpursley 4y ago
Yeah, sure: - Komi Republic (Komi - a Finnish/Uralic language): https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-komi https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-kom... - Tartarstan (Tartar language): https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ - Adygheya Republic (Adyghe aka West Circassian): http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ That's just a handful that I'm personally familiar with. It's easier to search in Cyrillic.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  Cool! Let's validate. Let's find a useful content page in russian and see if it works say in Tartar. https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm So, a guide through all the relevant administrative documents you might need. Let's click the "TAT" button to switch to the Tartar language... Oh wait, what's this? It doesn't exist? Imagine that. Another Potemkin website. The most ironic thing is that the "Report of the Tatarstan Foundation for Citizen's Right Protection" (PDF) is russian only. Regarding your pre-edit statement about seething in anti-russian hate: if russians don't like it, they can stop invading, stealing and killing. Maybe that'll help?
  - cpursley 4y ago
    So bigotry and hatred is okay against all Russians. Got it. Glad my country never invaded or killed anyone recently...
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      Any German person I spoke to has a deep feeling of responsibility for WW2. Even today, even younger generations. Believe it or not it makes the society stronger. Russia is far away from that. Being liked is a privilege you have to earn. Thinking you are owed nuanced, friendly treatment is a bit naive after what russia has done.
      - cpursley 4y ago
        You avoided my question: Is bigotry against all Russians justified? If so, you have more in common with Azov than traditional Western values.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        Some measures (like the visa ban) are justified. Telling them what you think - sure. Unjustified violence obviously not.
        gdy 4y ago
        And how is visa ban justified? Just curious how you would manage to avoid the words 'collective guilt'.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        1. Why would I need to avoid it? 2. Visas are not a right, but a privilege. 3. Skripal case.
        gdy 4y ago
        "Why would I need to avoid it?" Because it's a slippery slope to collective punishment. "This is a telling slip; Lewy is talking about ‘the Armenians’ as if the defenceless women and children who comprised the deportation columns were vicariously responsible for Armenian rebels in other parts of the country. The collective guilt accusation is unacceptable in scholarship, let alone in normal discourse and is, I think, one of the key ingredients in genocidal thinking. It fails to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, on which international humanitarian law has been insisting for over a hundred years now." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility
sargerage 4y ago
Go to any LOCAL government website in France where there is a concentration of indigenous ethnic minorities and find me a version in their language (Breton, Corsican, Basque, etc.)
- jevgeni 4y ago
  So what, you approve this standard?
  - gdy 4y ago
    Do you have different standards for Russia and France?
    - _glsb 4y ago
      No. I said elsewhere that a good example is Finland. Your whataboutism isn't helpful.
      - gdy 4y ago
        I agree that Finland is a good example, but you claim somehow that its existence makes Russia "fascist by assimilation". So what about other countries that don't meet Finland's standard for treatment of minority languages? Are they "fascist by assimilation" too or "it's different, you don't understand"?
        cpursley 4y ago
        It's different. This poster seethes with anger, hate and bigotry towards Russians in his posts.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        How dare I seethe! Majority of russians support the ethnic cleansing of my homeland, but seething - that's going too far.
gdy 4y ago
"you start to respect the culture of minorities" That's quite a leap from questioning why the federal government websites aren't translated into local languages. Care to share examples of such disrespect? "Good examples of treatment of minorities are Finland with their treatment of the Swedish minorities there" How would you rate pre-war treatment of language minorities in the Ukraine? "In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the Law of Ukraine "to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force. The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas) in the work of some public authorities, in the electoral procedures and political campaigning, in pre-school, school and university education, in scientific, cultural and sporting activities, in book publishing and book distribution, in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting, in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events), in hospitals and nursing homes, and in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine." [0] "So at which percentage" Ukrainian answer was 10% [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine
- jevgeni 4y ago
  That's the same level of laws that you get in Western countries, including Finland. Ukrainian is a state language and public servants must be able to speak it at a minimum.
  - gdy 4y ago
    Of course not. Finland has both Swedish and Finnish as state languages and the study of Swedish is mandatory for all citizens [2]. Compare it yourself. Ukraine: "Under the bill, all schools and universities will be required to teach in Ukrainian. All schools and universities are required to teach in Ukrainian, although special exemptions apply to certain ethnic minority languages, to English and to other official languages of the European Union. Contrary to the minority languages which are EU official languages, Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish are granted no exemption for the purposes of the law." [0] Finland: "All teaching from children’s pedagogy to university studies is available in Swedish in Finland." [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine#Analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine#Ana... [1] https://www.svenskfinland.fi/education-in-swedish/ https://www.svenskfinland.fi/education-in-swedish/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Swedish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Swedish

cpursley 4y ago

Yeah, sure: - Komi Republic (Komi - a Finnish/Uralic language): https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-komi https://gov.rkomi.ru/kv/kontakty-pravitelstva-respubliki-kom... - Tartarstan (Tartar language): https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ https://tatarstan.ru/tat/ - Adygheya Republic (Adyghe aka West Circassian): http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ http://www.adygheya.ru/ady/ That's just a handful that I'm personally familiar with. It's easier to search in Cyrillic.

jevgeni 4y ago
Cool! Let's validate. Let's find a useful content page in russian and see if it works say in Tartar. https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm https://tatarstan.ru/documents.htm So, a guide through all the relevant administrative documents you might need. Let's click the "TAT" button to switch to the Tartar language... Oh wait, what's this? It doesn't exist? Imagine that. Another Potemkin website. The most ironic thing is that the "Report of the Tatarstan Foundation for Citizen's Right Protection" (PDF) is russian only. Regarding your pre-edit statement about seething in anti-russian hate: if russians don't like it, they can stop invading, stealing and killing. Maybe that'll help?
- cpursley 4y ago
  So bigotry and hatred is okay against all Russians. Got it. Glad my country never invaded or killed anyone recently...
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    Any German person I spoke to has a deep feeling of responsibility for WW2. Even today, even younger generations. Believe it or not it makes the society stronger. Russia is far away from that. Being liked is a privilege you have to earn. Thinking you are owed nuanced, friendly treatment is a bit naive after what russia has done.
    - cpursley 4y ago
      You avoided my question: Is bigotry against all Russians justified? If so, you have more in common with Azov than traditional Western values.
      - jevgeni 4y ago
        Some measures (like the visa ban) are justified. Telling them what you think - sure. Unjustified violence obviously not.
        gdy 4y ago
        And how is visa ban justified? Just curious how you would manage to avoid the words 'collective guilt'.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        1. Why would I need to avoid it? 2. Visas are not a right, but a privilege. 3. Skripal case.
        gdy 4y ago
        "Why would I need to avoid it?" Because it's a slippery slope to collective punishment. "This is a telling slip; Lewy is talking about ‘the Armenians’ as if the defenceless women and children who comprised the deportation columns were vicariously responsible for Armenian rebels in other parts of the country. The collective guilt accusation is unacceptable in scholarship, let alone in normal discourse and is, I think, one of the key ingredients in genocidal thinking. It fails to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, on which international humanitarian law has been insisting for over a hundred years now." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

sargerage 4y ago

Go to any LOCAL government website in France where there is a concentration of indigenous ethnic minorities and find me a version in their language (Breton, Corsican, Basque, etc.)

jevgeni 4y ago
So what, you approve this standard?
- gdy 4y ago
  Do you have different standards for Russia and France?
  - _glsb 4y ago
    No. I said elsewhere that a good example is Finland. Your whataboutism isn't helpful.
    - gdy 4y ago
      I agree that Finland is a good example, but you claim somehow that its existence makes Russia "fascist by assimilation". So what about other countries that don't meet Finland's standard for treatment of minority languages? Are they "fascist by assimilation" too or "it's different, you don't understand"?
      - cpursley 4y ago
        It's different. This poster seethes with anger, hate and bigotry towards Russians in his posts.
        jevgeni 4y ago
        How dare I seethe! Majority of russians support the ethnic cleansing of my homeland, but seething - that's going too far.

gdy 4y ago

"you start to respect the culture of minorities" That's quite a leap from questioning why the federal government websites aren't translated into local languages. Care to share examples of such disrespect? "Good examples of treatment of minorities are Finland with their treatment of the Swedish minorities there" How would you rate pre-war treatment of language minorities in the Ukraine? "In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the Law of Ukraine "to ensure the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". On 16 June 2019, the law entered into force. The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within certain quotas) in the work of some public authorities, in the electoral procedures and political campaigning, in pre-school, school and university education, in scientific, cultural and sporting activities, in book publishing and book distribution, in printed mass media, television and radio broadcasting, in economic and social life (commercial advertising, public events), in hospitals and nursing homes, and in the activities of political parties and other legal entities (e.g. non-governmental organizations) registered in Ukraine." [0] "So at which percentage" Ukrainian answer was 10% [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine

jevgeni 4y ago
That's the same level of laws that you get in Western countries, including Finland. Ukrainian is a state language and public servants must be able to speak it at a minimum.
- gdy 4y ago
  Of course not. Finland has both Swedish and Finnish as state languages and the study of Swedish is mandatory for all citizens [2]. Compare it yourself. Ukraine: "Under the bill, all schools and universities will be required to teach in Ukrainian. All schools and universities are required to teach in Ukrainian, although special exemptions apply to certain ethnic minority languages, to English and to other official languages of the European Union. Contrary to the minority languages which are EU official languages, Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish are granted no exemption for the purposes of the law." [0] Finland: "All teaching from children’s pedagogy to university studies is available in Swedish in Finland." [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine#Analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy_in_Ukraine#Ana... [1] https://www.svenskfinland.fi/education-in-swedish/ https://www.svenskfinland.fi/education-in-swedish/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Swedish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Swedish