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You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. It was never really about NATO [1] for t

You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. It was never really about NATO [1] for the russians, but as Putin said in his initial speech at the beginning of the invasion to "find a final solution to the Ukrainian question). If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2). It was immensely popular in russia at the time and is the most racist thing I've ever seen. 1 - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-beg...

foverzar 4y ago
> You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. Why would one be that willfully superficial to look only at a recently crafted public image, instead of... I dunno... The recent history of the organisation? At the very least being lazy as we are, we could just take a quick look at their recent logo from a few years ago, according to Wikipedia featuring "...a combination of a mirrored Wolfsangel and Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS, over a small Tryzub". Somehow I doubt that this was all a total accident made up by evil Russians. I also remember internet openly talking about the rise of nazism in Ukraine before it became a taboo topic. And you could too, by simply telling your search engine to look for documents before 2022, when everyone went full post-truth. > russian ethno-fascism Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. > If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2) Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  Since it's a political organization with stated political goals, it might make sense to look at those goals. Not to mention that even with those goals they didn't manage to break into parliament, i.e. reach 2% of the votes (if we are talking about "the rise of nazism in Ukraine", btw). Right now you're going "symbol scary!". By that logic German AfD, the French Front Nationale, or UKIP are totally above board in that respect... > Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. Thanks for your racial theories... > Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US. It was indicative of the culture though. This is why today you won't see a popular game with such rhetoric as Duke Nukem anymore. But Russians still don't realize Brat 2 is racist.
  - spoiler 4y ago
    I'm aware of their failed legitimate attempts to establish a presence in the government. I'm not trying to saying Ukraine is turning to nazism or fascism (I also don't know that much about their politics). But I imagine that 2% of military-minded, [semi-]trained and armed people is enough to wreck havoc on civilian regions.
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      Do you assume AfD electorate in Germany is also "military minded, semi-trained and armed"?
  - foverzar 4y ago
    > Since it's a political organization with stated political goals Who cares about it's recent political pivoting? Why are you trying to stir the discussion away from the fact that Azov first and foremost in its recent origin is a military organisation born of banal street-level neonazi skinhead sorts? It's not your typical US Republican or German AfD talks-kinda-maybe-like-nazi-apologist, it's an actual physical organizied force. And the scandal of integrating it into Ukraine's National Guard back when it was openly waving the Third Reich's symbolics tells us quite a lot of its role in post-revolution Ukraine power structure. > Right now you're going "symbol scary!". By that logic German AfD, the French Front Nationale, or UKIP are totally above board in that respect... Are any of these also military organizations at their core? And specifically, what symbols so commonly associated with the Thrid Reich are they using? > Thanks for your racial theories... Beg your pardon? You were the one to bring up the topic of ethnicity, not me. > It was indicative of the culture though. This is why today you won't see a popular game with such rhetoric as Duke Nukem anymore. Duke Nukem had a reboot and an aniversary edition a few years ago... And the abundance of wierd rape fanasy porn games on Steam doesn't really add up. > But Russians still don't realize Brat 2 is racist. Is this a verifiable claim? Cuz you're referring to a 20 smth y.o. lowlife trashy criminal drama, not some "Brat N+1". Is it any different from a movie like La Haine (1995)?
    - _glsb 4y ago
      > Who cares about it's recent political pivoting? People who vote for them. You have zero evidence that the regiment follows a neonazi agenda. Neither does the National Guard, the Army, nor the government. Not to mention that Azov itself is multiethnic. Russians on the other hand have filtration camps and TV hosts on government channels call for nuclear war, ethnic cleansing and destruction of the Ukrainian national identity. Thank god they have nice logos though, otherwise they'd seem like Nazis! /s > Beg your pardon? You were the one to bring up the topic of ethnicity, not me. I didn't make any ethnic assertions. You started the "brothers slavs" trope. > And specifically, what symbols so commonly associated... Again, "symbol scary". Azov has no stated political goals against any minority / groups of population. AfD has. FN has. UKIP has. > Duke Nukem had a reboot and an aniversary edition a few years ago... Are they as popular as the original then? > Is this a verifiable claim? Ask a russian.

foverzar 4y ago

> You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. Why would one be that willfully superficial to look only at a recently crafted public image, instead of... I dunno... The recent history of the organisation? At the very least being lazy as we are, we could just take a quick look at their recent logo from a few years ago, according to Wikipedia featuring "...a combination of a mirrored Wolfsangel and Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS, over a small Tryzub". Somehow I doubt that this was all a total accident made up by evil Russians. I also remember internet openly talking about the rise of nazism in Ukraine before it became a taboo topic. And you could too, by simply telling your search engine to look for documents before 2022, when everyone went full post-truth. > russian ethno-fascism Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. > If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2) Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US.

jevgeni 4y ago
Since it's a political organization with stated political goals, it might make sense to look at those goals. Not to mention that even with those goals they didn't manage to break into parliament, i.e. reach 2% of the votes (if we are talking about "the rise of nazism in Ukraine", btw). Right now you're going "symbol scary!". By that logic German AfD, the French Front Nationale, or UKIP are totally above board in that respect... > Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. Thanks for your racial theories... > Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US. It was indicative of the culture though. This is why today you won't see a popular game with such rhetoric as Duke Nukem anymore. But Russians still don't realize Brat 2 is racist.
- spoiler 4y ago
  I'm aware of their failed legitimate attempts to establish a presence in the government. I'm not trying to saying Ukraine is turning to nazism or fascism (I also don't know that much about their politics). But I imagine that 2% of military-minded, [semi-]trained and armed people is enough to wreck havoc on civilian regions.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    Do you assume AfD electorate in Germany is also "military minded, semi-trained and armed"?
- foverzar 4y ago
  > Since it's a political organization with stated political goals Who cares about it's recent political pivoting? Why are you trying to stir the discussion away from the fact that Azov first and foremost in its recent origin is a military organisation born of banal street-level neonazi skinhead sorts? It's not your typical US Republican or German AfD talks-kinda-maybe-like-nazi-apologist, it's an actual physical organizied force. And the scandal of integrating it into Ukraine's National Guard back when it was openly waving the Third Reich's symbolics tells us quite a lot of its role in post-revolution Ukraine power structure. > Right now you're going "symbol scary!". By that logic German AfD, the French Front Nationale, or UKIP are totally above board in that respect... Are any of these also military organizations at their core? And specifically, what symbols so commonly associated with the Thrid Reich are they using? > Thanks for your racial theories... Beg your pardon? You were the one to bring up the topic of ethnicity, not me. > It was indicative of the culture though. This is why today you won't see a popular game with such rhetoric as Duke Nukem anymore. Duke Nukem had a reboot and an aniversary edition a few years ago... And the abundance of wierd rape fanasy porn games on Steam doesn't really add up. > But Russians still don't realize Brat 2 is racist. Is this a verifiable claim? Cuz you're referring to a 20 smth y.o. lowlife trashy criminal drama, not some "Brat N+1". Is it any different from a movie like La Haine (1995)?
  - _glsb 4y ago
    > Who cares about it's recent political pivoting? People who vote for them. You have zero evidence that the regiment follows a neonazi agenda. Neither does the National Guard, the Army, nor the government. Not to mention that Azov itself is multiethnic. Russians on the other hand have filtration camps and TV hosts on government channels call for nuclear war, ethnic cleansing and destruction of the Ukrainian national identity. Thank god they have nice logos though, otherwise they'd seem like Nazis! /s > Beg your pardon? You were the one to bring up the topic of ethnicity, not me. I didn't make any ethnic assertions. You started the "brothers slavs" trope. > And specifically, what symbols so commonly associated... Again, "symbol scary". Azov has no stated political goals against any minority / groups of population. AfD has. FN has. UKIP has. > Duke Nukem had a reboot and an aniversary edition a few years ago... Are they as popular as the original then? > Is this a verifiable claim? Ask a russian.