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Mexico will be fine as well. North America is in a pretty good place compared to the rest of the world when it comes to energy/food/labor demographics. China

by JPKab 4y ago

Mexico will be fine as well. North America is in a pretty good place compared to the rest of the world when it comes to energy/food/labor demographics. China is, unfortunately, a long way from the competent leadership of Hu Jintao and the other previous post-Mao leaders. Unlike the previous leaders (primarily selected on merit), who WANTED to prevent another Mao-like cult of personality, Xi is a deeply-insecure man whose rise was entirely built on family connections. He has fostered a cult of personality while simultaneously using the cover of anti-corruption stings to remove all of his CCP rivals, or anyone critical of him. The result is a huge departure from the previously competent CCP decisions. The current CCP is carrying out foolish, self-destructive, and non-sensical policies that can only make sense in the context of local decision makers desperate to please Xi. Xi is the ultimate centralizer of all decisions, having knee-capped the previous CCP policies of pushing decision making to local officials as much as possible. It's a real nightmare, and has resulted in China having an image of a shining (although somewhat authoritarian) city on a hill to a weird techno-dystopia with people starving in their apartments under absurdly stupid "Zero Covid" lockdown policies because the CCP can't admit the SinoVax is a complete failure.

drekk 4y ago
China has 4x the population of the US. Abandoning zero COVID as a policy would lead to millions of deaths. How can you call SinoVax a failure when all of the non-mRNA vaccines perform similarly? The US has more COVID deaths than China has had cases. That's shameful, especially when the US sat on enough mRNA vaccines to completely immunize our population 9x over. Countries like Argentina that were guinea pigs for the Pfizer, Moderna, J&J vaccines couldn't get enough access because IP law is more important than stopping a global pandemic that disrupts manufacturing. Countries like China and Cuba had to manufacture their own vaccines without the new mRNA process and it was less effective as a result but still better than nothing. Cuba even had to get permission from the US to import syringes to be able to administer the vaccine they manufactured. How is that defensible? All of this without even saying that the CPC has an incredibly high approval rating (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-sur...), even when the polling is done by outside entities and anonymized. It seems incredibly condescending to treat a billion+ humans as inept drones under the iron grip of a tyrant simply because they're geopolitical rivals.
- TurkishPoptart 4y ago
  Firstly, the mRNA "vaccines" do not produce any sort of immunity. AFAIK the Chinese vaccines actually work like traditional vaccines (i.e. cowpox particles to produce smallpox immunity). We really don't know the Covid death rate in China, whether there are excess deaths from Covid infection directly or as a result of the CCP's cruel and barbaric lockdown measures, which have caused reports of starvation in places like Shanghai. I also would not extrapolate public opinion about the CCP based on polling, even if it's done by outside entities and anonymized. Any Chinese with an IQ higher than room temperature would know better than to speak out against the CCP in a western-designed poll. Xi Jinping is leading his country like Stalin...they have GULAGs for dissenters. So, I don't disagree with you. I just think culturally, the Chinese are rightly reticent to express any antigovernmental sentiment, for good reason. Let's remember that the Chinese people have been occupied and oppressed by the Chinese Communist Party since the Chinese civil war. I pray for their liberation.
- prottog 4y ago
  > a billion+ humans as inept drones under the iron grip of a tyrant Drones, no, but it's very instructive to look at what the elites of China do. Many who achieve success in China spend significant resources to have a foot out the door, because they know that success is fleeting, depending on remaining in favor of the CCP. Even Xi Jinping's daughter went to school in the US. If the CCP is actually so benign and China is well run and a good place to be, why does that happen?
  - hakfoo 4y ago
    Optimization goals? They could be targeting economic policy around the, say, 1.3 billion or so non-elites. A few million at the top may see a net burden in "we have to be responsive to overall planning goals" and "we might have less raw economic opportunity", but maybe it's a choice the CCP is willing to make. At least on an aggregate, society-wide level, the quality-of-life metrics do seem to be pointing in the right direction. I don't think "schooling in the US" is inherently a culpable thing. Premier American universities are globally very highly respected, and I could see value in "cross training" to make sure they're not missing any good ideas worth investigating.
prottog 4y ago
This is why any system of government that relies on an unbroken chain of good leaders, as opposed to limited government with systemic safeguards, is bound to fail, and often times sooner rather than later.
- lupire 4y ago
  Question is whether the failure is worse than the increased success during the good times. Without strong leadership, China might still be a pre-ondustrial/low-industrial poor region plagues by wars between small nations.

by JPKab 4y ago

drekk 4y ago

China has 4x the population of the US. Abandoning zero COVID as a policy would lead to millions of deaths. How can you call SinoVax a failure when all of the non-mRNA vaccines perform similarly? The US has more COVID deaths than China has had cases. That's shameful, especially when the US sat on enough mRNA vaccines to completely immunize our population 9x over. Countries like Argentina that were guinea pigs for the Pfizer, Moderna, J&J vaccines couldn't get enough access because IP law is more important than stopping a global pandemic that disrupts manufacturing. Countries like China and Cuba had to manufacture their own vaccines without the new mRNA process and it was less effective as a result but still better than nothing. Cuba even had to get permission from the US to import syringes to be able to administer the vaccine they manufactured. How is that defensible? All of this without even saying that the CPC has an incredibly high approval rating (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-sur...), even when the polling is done by outside entities and anonymized. It seems incredibly condescending to treat a billion+ humans as inept drones under the iron grip of a tyrant simply because they're geopolitical rivals.

TurkishPoptart 4y ago
Firstly, the mRNA "vaccines" do not produce any sort of immunity. AFAIK the Chinese vaccines actually work like traditional vaccines (i.e. cowpox particles to produce smallpox immunity). We really don't know the Covid death rate in China, whether there are excess deaths from Covid infection directly or as a result of the CCP's cruel and barbaric lockdown measures, which have caused reports of starvation in places like Shanghai. I also would not extrapolate public opinion about the CCP based on polling, even if it's done by outside entities and anonymized. Any Chinese with an IQ higher than room temperature would know better than to speak out against the CCP in a western-designed poll. Xi Jinping is leading his country like Stalin...they have GULAGs for dissenters. So, I don't disagree with you. I just think culturally, the Chinese are rightly reticent to express any antigovernmental sentiment, for good reason. Let's remember that the Chinese people have been occupied and oppressed by the Chinese Communist Party since the Chinese civil war. I pray for their liberation.
prottog 4y ago
> a billion+ humans as inept drones under the iron grip of a tyrant Drones, no, but it's very instructive to look at what the elites of China do. Many who achieve success in China spend significant resources to have a foot out the door, because they know that success is fleeting, depending on remaining in favor of the CCP. Even Xi Jinping's daughter went to school in the US. If the CCP is actually so benign and China is well run and a good place to be, why does that happen?
- hakfoo 4y ago
  Optimization goals? They could be targeting economic policy around the, say, 1.3 billion or so non-elites. A few million at the top may see a net burden in "we have to be responsive to overall planning goals" and "we might have less raw economic opportunity", but maybe it's a choice the CCP is willing to make. At least on an aggregate, society-wide level, the quality-of-life metrics do seem to be pointing in the right direction. I don't think "schooling in the US" is inherently a culpable thing. Premier American universities are globally very highly respected, and I could see value in "cross training" to make sure they're not missing any good ideas worth investigating.

prottog 4y ago

This is why any system of government that relies on an unbroken chain of good leaders, as opposed to limited government with systemic safeguards, is bound to fail, and often times sooner rather than later.

lupire 4y ago
Question is whether the failure is worse than the increased success during the good times. Without strong leadership, China might still be a pre-ondustrial/low-industrial poor region plagues by wars between small nations.