4 ms·

> only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages Ever stopped to wonder why that might be the ca

> only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages Ever stopped to wonder why that might be the case?

cpursley 4y ago
For similar reasons that people in the US no longer speak German, Dutch or various British Isle dialects (and the reason after a couple generations, Spanish speaking immigrants are more fluent in English than Spanish).
- mistrial9 4y ago
  the world is not that different in some ways than five hundred years ago.. there are literate people and illiterate people, on a large scale. The rise and fall of literate languages is not the same story as the number of people that speak a language, or what colors are on the local police car. It is not popular to speak of this in the USA since there is a "unifying myth" of equality. What the USA did do brilliantly is use markets and local jurisdictions to let warring people settle nearby each other, and thrive. Over time the old ways show up however. Evolution is not practiced uniformly.
- stonogo 4y ago
  There are parts of the US that still have German-language newspapers. Detroit had a Dutch newspaper until 2018. Whether it closed because it was Dutch or because newspapers as a product are on the decline is academic; the point is that people in the US do speak German, Dutch, and various British Isle dialects, and furthermore there are third-, fourth- and more-generation Spanish-speaking people throughout the south and west. It's a big country, and a lot happens outside your neighborhood.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    Yeah, but a lot of it has (unfortunately) dissapeared. Especially during the anti-German episode related to WWII. Assimilation happens by various means.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  US didn't annex the Germans or the Dutch into their country. Stop pretending that russia somehow grew peacefully.
  - gdy 4y ago
    Did the US grew peacefully? I mean all the territory of the United States was taken from Native Americans. Do you get as agitated about this as you are about Russia?
    - jevgeni 4y ago
      But Native Americans weren't Dutch, were they? Immigrants CHOSE to come to the USA and CHOSE to adapt. A bit different in case of most russian minorities. If you consider what the Americans did to the natives bad (which you should) you should be as concerned for russian minorities. This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome.
      - gdy 4y ago
        What exactly should I be concerned about? Disappearing small languages? I am, but what about it is specific to Russia? "This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome." Of course it is tiresome. Especially after you say 'American history is good, Russian history is bad' and get reminded about Native Americans. So tiresome!
gdy 4y ago
You seem to have an answer. Would you mind sharing it?
- marshray 4y ago
  Systematic genocide.
  - gdy 4y ago
    Care to elaborate?
    - marshray 4y ago
      The current genocide against Ukrainian-ness is one example. Some other examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov...
      - gdy 4y ago
        What I've seen look like war crimes, what is the argument for qualifying them as genocide? Stalin's (and bolshevik's in general) crimes are horrible, but ethnic Russians weren't safe from them either. Have you seen breakdown of their victims by ethnicity?
        marshray 4y ago
        The point is that Russia is the largest country by land area, composed of a great many regions and ethnicities, and yet all the language-speakers have vanished. This didn't happen by accident. It is the result of a program of systematic, violent, erasure.
        gdy 4y ago
        "yet all the language-speakers have vanished" Now that is just false. [0][1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia

> only 3% of Russian citizens are Tatar language speakers and there are even fewer speakers for other languages Ever stopped to wonder why that might be the case?

cpursley 4y ago

For similar reasons that people in the US no longer speak German, Dutch or various British Isle dialects (and the reason after a couple generations, Spanish speaking immigrants are more fluent in English than Spanish).

mistrial9 4y ago
the world is not that different in some ways than five hundred years ago.. there are literate people and illiterate people, on a large scale. The rise and fall of literate languages is not the same story as the number of people that speak a language, or what colors are on the local police car. It is not popular to speak of this in the USA since there is a "unifying myth" of equality. What the USA did do brilliantly is use markets and local jurisdictions to let warring people settle nearby each other, and thrive. Over time the old ways show up however. Evolution is not practiced uniformly.
stonogo 4y ago
There are parts of the US that still have German-language newspapers. Detroit had a Dutch newspaper until 2018. Whether it closed because it was Dutch or because newspapers as a product are on the decline is academic; the point is that people in the US do speak German, Dutch, and various British Isle dialects, and furthermore there are third-, fourth- and more-generation Spanish-speaking people throughout the south and west. It's a big country, and a lot happens outside your neighborhood.
- cpursley 4y ago
  Yeah, but a lot of it has (unfortunately) dissapeared. Especially during the anti-German episode related to WWII. Assimilation happens by various means.
jevgeni 4y ago
US didn't annex the Germans or the Dutch into their country. Stop pretending that russia somehow grew peacefully.
- gdy 4y ago
  Did the US grew peacefully? I mean all the territory of the United States was taken from Native Americans. Do you get as agitated about this as you are about Russia?
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    But Native Americans weren't Dutch, were they? Immigrants CHOSE to come to the USA and CHOSE to adapt. A bit different in case of most russian minorities. If you consider what the Americans did to the natives bad (which you should) you should be as concerned for russian minorities. This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome.
    - gdy 4y ago
      What exactly should I be concerned about? Disappearing small languages? I am, but what about it is specific to Russia? "This "if Americans are bad, we should be allowed to be bad as well" take is tiresome." Of course it is tiresome. Especially after you say 'American history is good, Russian history is bad' and get reminded about Native Americans. So tiresome!

gdy 4y ago

You seem to have an answer. Would you mind sharing it?

marshray 4y ago
Systematic genocide.
- gdy 4y ago
  Care to elaborate?
  - marshray 4y ago
    The current genocide against Ukrainian-ness is one example. Some other examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov...
    - gdy 4y ago
      What I've seen look like war crimes, what is the argument for qualifying them as genocide? Stalin's (and bolshevik's in general) crimes are horrible, but ethnic Russians weren't safe from them either. Have you seen breakdown of their victims by ethnicity?
      - marshray 4y ago
        The point is that Russia is the largest country by land area, composed of a great many regions and ethnicities, and yet all the language-speakers have vanished. This didn't happen by accident. It is the result of a program of systematic, violent, erasure.
        gdy 4y ago
        "yet all the language-speakers have vanished" Now that is just false. [0][1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_of_Russia