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Isn't Putin saying that parts of Ukraine which voted in a referendum that they'd like to join Russia should stop being bullied by Azov neo-nazies[1][2], and tha

Isn't Putin saying that parts of Ukraine which voted in a referendum that they'd like to join Russia should stop being bullied by Azov neo-nazies[1][2], and that's one of the reasons why this whole kerfuffle in Ukraine started (the other two being Ukraine's new interest in NATO, and claims of research US military facilities near the Ukraine-Russia border, or plans for one[2]). Also, if someone's genuinely interested in my "sources" I'm willing to put in the work and post them, but didn't want to waste time in case people can't be bothered to be critical and click the links, and I also don't have a horse in this race, but the whole "America best, everyone bad" mentality literally reeks of indoctrination and lack of critical thinking that indoctrination and gaslighting cause, and it's worrying that it's happening in America of all places (which I admired for human rights and freedom of expression and thought, at least until recently). For reference, some were older BBC and CNN articles, a few YouTube videos, and a Quora thread which duplicates some of these. [1]: Which the US military is supplying weapons to, apparently [2] Maybe I fell victim to not appropriately fact checking some propaganda though, but I'm also not sure how to fact check something like this, and... The truth of the matter is that the US has done much worse in the past. Aside: This whole "everything is a propaganda machine" is so frustrating, and I hate that there's literally nothing you can trust these days. I honestly can't even tell if I'm "paranoid" to think so. It just so very saddening, and despite some people's best efforts, it seems human nature is truly disappointing everywhere we turn.

jevgeni 4y ago
You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. It was never really about NATO [1] for the russians, but as Putin said in his initial speech at the beginning of the invasion to "find a final solution to the Ukrainian question). If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2). It was immensely popular in russia at the time and is the most racist thing I've ever seen. 1 - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-beg...
- foverzar 4y ago
  > You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. Why would one be that willfully superficial to look only at a recently crafted public image, instead of... I dunno... The recent history of the organisation? At the very least being lazy as we are, we could just take a quick look at their recent logo from a few years ago, according to Wikipedia featuring "...a combination of a mirrored Wolfsangel and Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS, over a small Tryzub". Somehow I doubt that this was all a total accident made up by evil Russians. I also remember internet openly talking about the rise of nazism in Ukraine before it became a taboo topic. And you could too, by simply telling your search engine to look for documents before 2022, when everyone went full post-truth. > russian ethno-fascism Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. > If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2) Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US.
  - jevgeni 4y ago
    Since it's a political organization with stated political goals, it might make sense to look at those goals. Not to mention that even with those goals they didn't manage to break into parliament, i.e. reach 2% of the votes (if we are talking about "the rise of nazism in Ukraine", btw). Right now you're going "symbol scary!". By that logic German AfD, the French Front Nationale, or UKIP are totally above board in that respect... > Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. Thanks for your racial theories... > Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US. It was indicative of the culture though. This is why today you won't see a popular game with such rhetoric as Duke Nukem anymore. But Russians still don't realize Brat 2 is racist.
    - spoiler 4y ago
      I'm aware of their failed legitimate attempts to establish a presence in the government. I'm not trying to saying Ukraine is turning to nazism or fascism (I also don't know that much about their politics). But I imagine that 2% of military-minded, [semi-]trained and armed people is enough to wreck havoc on civilian regions.

jevgeni 4y ago

You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. It was never really about NATO [1] for the russians, but as Putin said in his initial speech at the beginning of the invasion to "find a final solution to the Ukrainian question). If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2). It was immensely popular in russia at the time and is the most racist thing I've ever seen. 1 - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-beg...

foverzar 4y ago
> You can fact check it by going to the website of the people you are calling neonazis (Azov) and find a neonazi agenda. Why would one be that willfully superficial to look only at a recently crafted public image, instead of... I dunno... The recent history of the organisation? At the very least being lazy as we are, we could just take a quick look at their recent logo from a few years ago, according to Wikipedia featuring "...a combination of a mirrored Wolfsangel and Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS, over a small Tryzub". Somehow I doubt that this was all a total accident made up by evil Russians. I also remember internet openly talking about the rise of nazism in Ukraine before it became a taboo topic. And you could too, by simply telling your search engine to look for documents before 2022, when everyone went full post-truth. > russian ethno-fascism Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. > If you want to see the origin of russian ethno-fascism, try to find an early 2000s russian action film called "Brother 2" (Брат 2) Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US.
- jevgeni 4y ago
  Since it's a political organization with stated political goals, it might make sense to look at those goals. Not to mention that even with those goals they didn't manage to break into parliament, i.e. reach 2% of the votes (if we are talking about "the rise of nazism in Ukraine", btw). Right now you're going "symbol scary!". By that logic German AfD, the French Front Nationale, or UKIP are totally above board in that respect... > Ukrainians and Russians are mostly ethnically slavs, ugh. Thanks for your racial theories... > Oh please, it's like claiming that Duke Nukem is a represantative origin of women's rights in the US. It was indicative of the culture though. This is why today you won't see a popular game with such rhetoric as Duke Nukem anymore. But Russians still don't realize Brat 2 is racist.
  - spoiler 4y ago
    I'm aware of their failed legitimate attempts to establish a presence in the government. I'm not trying to saying Ukraine is turning to nazism or fascism (I also don't know that much about their politics). But I imagine that 2% of military-minded, [semi-]trained and armed people is enough to wreck havoc on civilian regions.