4 ms·

> We should celebrate this full spectrum narrative control, not 'investigate' it. You were doing well until this last sentence. No, propaganda and psychologic

> We should celebrate this full spectrum narrative control, not 'investigate' it. You were doing well until this last sentence. No, propaganda and psychological manipulation is completely incompatible with a democratic society.

eastbound 4y ago
Is it? What leads you to believe that democracy is a stable state? My take: Democracy is not the natural state, therefore requires a lot of psyops to remain in place. It’s not democratic, but well, can you speak up about it? No. Or if you can, will you? Probably not worth it. You’re “happy enough”. My converging evidence: France’s 1789 democracy was set up by gillotining the very person who would have gotten all the majority votes (He was organizing a referendum and the parliament couldn’t let this happen); The EU wasn’t born as a democracy and we only ask people’s opinions when it’s trending up; etc. there are so many examples that actually-democratic systems are an unstable mess and superficially-democratic systems are the norm. The idea is that people believe they live in democracy, and psyops the only way to reach this state. True democracy might be a naive dream.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"True democracy might be a naive dream." If the democracy leads to a tyranny of a majority it does not deserve to be a dream either. To me what has the most value is the recognition and protection of the individual rights.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    While the subject is serious, I want to offer a quote from Pratchett: “Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.”
- goodpoint 4y ago
  Is this 4chan now? Between this and the other 2 idiotic replies I can't tell the difference.
- lmm 4y ago
  > My converging evidence: France’s 1789 democracy was set up by gillotining the very person who would have gotten all the majority votes (He was organizing a referendum and the parliament couldn’t let this happen); The EU wasn’t born as a democracy and we only ask people’s opinions when it’s trending up; etc. there are so many examples that actually-democratic systems are an unstable mess and superficially-democratic systems are the norm. The EU is hardly a triumph of stability - indeed I'd argue it supports the opposite idea, it's unstable because it's not accountable enough and people realise that, no matter how strong the propaganda.
hunglee2 4y ago
democratic societies require ideological control. We are seeing today how unfettered communication is leading to polarisation and consequent 'crisis of democracy'. Good job we are reasserting control over information flows - banning Trump etc - in order to reduce confusion, improve indoctrination and promote stability.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  I disagree strongly, but I believe this comment should be in full view so that people can appreciate it is not a rare sentiment. I have encountered it within my social circle quite often.
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Those in favor of such a system for some reason are 100% convinced that it will be people like them who get to decide what's acceptable thought and what thoughts deserve punishment. The reality is much more likely that such a beast will take on a mind of its own and all of us, regardless of ideology, will end up suffering greatly under it.
    - goodpoint 4y ago
      In short, you described authoritarianism.
  - hunglee2 4y ago
    all comments should be in full view, no true democrat can accept anything otherwise. Cheers to you!
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  The low education of many Americans is the reason Trump was/is effective, not because he has a capacity to communicate...
  - hunglee2 4y ago

eastbound 4y ago

Is it? What leads you to believe that democracy is a stable state? My take: Democracy is not the natural state, therefore requires a lot of psyops to remain in place. It’s not democratic, but well, can you speak up about it? No. Or if you can, will you? Probably not worth it. You’re “happy enough”. My converging evidence: France’s 1789 democracy was set up by gillotining the very person who would have gotten all the majority votes (He was organizing a referendum and the parliament couldn’t let this happen); The EU wasn’t born as a democracy and we only ask people’s opinions when it’s trending up; etc. there are so many examples that actually-democratic systems are an unstable mess and superficially-democratic systems are the norm. The idea is that people believe they live in democracy, and psyops the only way to reach this state. True democracy might be a naive dream.

FpUser 4y ago
>"True democracy might be a naive dream." If the democracy leads to a tyranny of a majority it does not deserve to be a dream either. To me what has the most value is the recognition and protection of the individual rights.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  While the subject is serious, I want to offer a quote from Pratchett: “Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.”
goodpoint 4y ago
Is this 4chan now? Between this and the other 2 idiotic replies I can't tell the difference.
lmm 4y ago
> My converging evidence: France’s 1789 democracy was set up by gillotining the very person who would have gotten all the majority votes (He was organizing a referendum and the parliament couldn’t let this happen); The EU wasn’t born as a democracy and we only ask people’s opinions when it’s trending up; etc. there are so many examples that actually-democratic systems are an unstable mess and superficially-democratic systems are the norm. The EU is hardly a triumph of stability - indeed I'd argue it supports the opposite idea, it's unstable because it's not accountable enough and people realise that, no matter how strong the propaganda.

hunglee2 4y ago

democratic societies require ideological control. We are seeing today how unfettered communication is leading to polarisation and consequent 'crisis of democracy'. Good job we are reasserting control over information flows - banning Trump etc - in order to reduce confusion, improve indoctrination and promote stability.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
I disagree strongly, but I believe this comment should be in full view so that people can appreciate it is not a rare sentiment. I have encountered it within my social circle quite often.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Those in favor of such a system for some reason are 100% convinced that it will be people like them who get to decide what's acceptable thought and what thoughts deserve punishment. The reality is much more likely that such a beast will take on a mind of its own and all of us, regardless of ideology, will end up suffering greatly under it.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    In short, you described authoritarianism.
- hunglee2 4y ago
  all comments should be in full view, no true democrat can accept anything otherwise. Cheers to you!
palmetieri2000 4y ago
The low education of many Americans is the reason Trump was/is effective, not because he has a capacity to communicate...
- hunglee2 4y ago