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>The web3/crypto community seems to select for individuals with an almost proud ignorance of the law and state power. And the problem with that is what? State

>The web3/crypto community seems to select for individuals with an almost proud ignorance of the law and state power. And the problem with that is what? State power and law failed us.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the problem with that is what? Generally: if you’re trying to fix something, understanding how it works is usually a good start. Specifically: pompous ignorance leads to gross negligence and criminality so stupidly brazen a B-list editor would send it back for being unbelievable. The sort that is rampant in crypto/web3.
- notch656a 4y ago
  >Generally: if you’re trying to fix something, Yes the fix is clear to me. Remove KYC+AML from the banking/monetary system. The expansion of crypto is in part a response to a pompous ignorance of government officials, attempting to impose a search of your papers merely for banking and the government implementing policies so stupid even a B-list editor wouldn't believe it. The government failed so other actors came in, then everyone made a sad face that when the government failed alternatives were found.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Remove KYC+AML from the banking/monetary system Luna's downfall and Do Kwon's pending red notice have nothing to do with KYC or AML.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      >Luna's downfall and Do Kwon's pending red notice have nothing to do with KYC or AML. I disagree here. The 'killer app' feature of crypto is that it's basically imperfect banking without KYC/AML. Without crypto's popularity it's doubtful Do Kwon and Luna would have gotten such a foothold.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > [crypto is] basically imperfect banking without KYC/AML Pretty solid case for why these folks should go to jail. Or at the very least, be disgorged of their gains and banned from finance.
  - freen 4y ago
    Chesterton’s fence fail.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      >Chesterton’s fence fail. Excellent point. The legislature ripped quite a bit of privacy and freedom from the banking system post 9/11 on an almost blind rampage, without doing much stopping and asking why things were they were. I admit it was the ultimate Chesterton's fence fail on the government's part and likely a big reason why a new fence seems to have been built with crypto. Honestly even bitcoin the white paper seems to have had more thought poured into it than the Patriot Act, which kicked off much of the KYC reforms in the US. In reality I think many of the adopters of cryptocurrency realized exactly the dystopia that the banking system was going down and very deliberately tried to take some of the failures of government into account.
      - MomoXenosaga 4y ago
        People just don't want to pay their taxes,buy drugs/weapons/illegal porn or launder cash. Couching it in high minded ideals isn't fooling anyone.
        notch656a 4y ago
        Clearly anyone not happy with (or seeking alternatives to) the post 9/11 banking surveillance apparatus must be cast down as a nefarious character who isn't fooling anyone.
      - freen 4y ago
        The libertarian fallacy: the solution to bad regulation is no regulation whatsoever.
        notch656a 4y ago
        The freen fallacy: anything between 'Patriot Act era KYC' and 'the <freen> solution' is libertarian nonsense.
rurp 4y ago
This reminds me of an old skit, I think from Monty Python. Where a bunch of people in ancient rome are pissed off. "What has Rome ever done for us?!". "Expect for roads" "And sewers" "And protection from invaders" "And enforced contracts" And so on...
- notch656a 4y ago
  - vkou 4y ago
    Surely you realize that if the power vacuum isn't filled by a democratic or mostly democratic or even somewhat democratic government, it will be happily met by a despot or a warlord? The steady state of parts of the globe that don't have governments is 'government, but by cartels or warlords or revolutionary people's liberation armies'. Which have all the powers of governments, without any of the self-constraints, legal processes, protected abilities for petition or redress, or mechanisms for peaceful transfer of power.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      No I don't realize that.
  - rurp 4y ago
    Large scale infrastructure? Yeah that's pretty much always built by governments. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societies. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank God crypto is here to knock some common sense into the world.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      Women in a high elected office? Up until the 1920s men were pretty much always governors in the United States. That held true for hundreds of years, over hundreds of different elections. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank god women are here to knock some common sense into the world. Transport on land? Yeah that's pretty much always done by horse. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societies. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank God mechanized vehicles are here to knock some sense into the world. >Yeah that's pretty much always built by governments. Yes definitely, that's why I can never find privately refined and delivered gasoline, have goods shipped internationally except through a nationalized shipping company, and can't find a private company to deliver my last-mile internet or cell-phone service.

>The web3/crypto community seems to select for individuals with an almost proud ignorance of the law and state power. And the problem with that is what? State power and law failed us.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> the problem with that is what? Generally: if you’re trying to fix something, understanding how it works is usually a good start. Specifically: pompous ignorance leads to gross negligence and criminality so stupidly brazen a B-list editor would send it back for being unbelievable. The sort that is rampant in crypto/web3.

notch656a 4y ago
>Generally: if you’re trying to fix something, Yes the fix is clear to me. Remove KYC+AML from the banking/monetary system. The expansion of crypto is in part a response to a pompous ignorance of government officials, attempting to impose a search of your papers merely for banking and the government implementing policies so stupid even a B-list editor wouldn't believe it. The government failed so other actors came in, then everyone made a sad face that when the government failed alternatives were found.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Remove KYC+AML from the banking/monetary system Luna's downfall and Do Kwon's pending red notice have nothing to do with KYC or AML.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    >Luna's downfall and Do Kwon's pending red notice have nothing to do with KYC or AML. I disagree here. The 'killer app' feature of crypto is that it's basically imperfect banking without KYC/AML. Without crypto's popularity it's doubtful Do Kwon and Luna would have gotten such a foothold.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > [crypto is] basically imperfect banking without KYC/AML Pretty solid case for why these folks should go to jail. Or at the very least, be disgorged of their gains and banned from finance.
- freen 4y ago
  Chesterton’s fence fail.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    >Chesterton’s fence fail. Excellent point. The legislature ripped quite a bit of privacy and freedom from the banking system post 9/11 on an almost blind rampage, without doing much stopping and asking why things were they were. I admit it was the ultimate Chesterton's fence fail on the government's part and likely a big reason why a new fence seems to have been built with crypto. Honestly even bitcoin the white paper seems to have had more thought poured into it than the Patriot Act, which kicked off much of the KYC reforms in the US. In reality I think many of the adopters of cryptocurrency realized exactly the dystopia that the banking system was going down and very deliberately tried to take some of the failures of government into account.
    - MomoXenosaga 4y ago
      People just don't want to pay their taxes,buy drugs/weapons/illegal porn or launder cash. Couching it in high minded ideals isn't fooling anyone.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        Clearly anyone not happy with (or seeking alternatives to) the post 9/11 banking surveillance apparatus must be cast down as a nefarious character who isn't fooling anyone.
    - freen 4y ago
      The libertarian fallacy: the solution to bad regulation is no regulation whatsoever.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        The freen fallacy: anything between 'Patriot Act era KYC' and 'the <freen> solution' is libertarian nonsense.

rurp 4y ago

This reminds me of an old skit, I think from Monty Python. Where a bunch of people in ancient rome are pissed off. "What has Rome ever done for us?!". "Expect for roads" "And sewers" "And protection from invaders" "And enforced contracts" And so on...

notch656a 4y ago
- vkou 4y ago
  Surely you realize that if the power vacuum isn't filled by a democratic or mostly democratic or even somewhat democratic government, it will be happily met by a despot or a warlord? The steady state of parts of the globe that don't have governments is 'government, but by cartels or warlords or revolutionary people's liberation armies'. Which have all the powers of governments, without any of the self-constraints, legal processes, protected abilities for petition or redress, or mechanisms for peaceful transfer of power.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    No I don't realize that.
- rurp 4y ago
  Large scale infrastructure? Yeah that's pretty much always built by governments. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societies. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank God crypto is here to knock some common sense into the world.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Women in a high elected office? Up until the 1920s men were pretty much always governors in the United States. That held true for hundreds of years, over hundreds of different elections. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank god women are here to knock some common sense into the world. Transport on land? Yeah that's pretty much always done by horse. This has held true for millenia, over hundreds of different societies. But yeah, just a fluke I'm sure. Thank God mechanized vehicles are here to knock some sense into the world. >Yeah that's pretty much always built by governments. Yes definitely, that's why I can never find privately refined and delivered gasoline, have goods shipped internationally except through a nationalized shipping company, and can't find a private company to deliver my last-mile internet or cell-phone service.