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Here is an example of how insane twitter is: https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1571629917372039168 https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/157162991737203

Here is an example of how insane twitter is: https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1571629917372039168 https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1571629917372039168 This person, a "verified user", is claiming that this group of people is performing a "nazi salute". This claim has 20,000 likes, meaning it has influenced at least that many people. The video is very obviously a group of people praying. This person is perpetuating the idea that there are mainstream American political candidates who are aligned with Nazis. This is so far beyond anything even remotely grounded in reality that it's actually difficult for me to imagine a scenario where the person making this claim isn't either literally experiencing mental health realated hallucinations, or is directly attacking the psyche of the people reading what he writes. And yet: this person, tacitly endorsed by twitter, is pushing this insane paranoid delusion out into the world and having it massively amplified. Terrifying.

teachrdan 4y ago
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- thepasswordis 4y ago
  The Nazis were openly and explicitly engaged in genocide. They killed millions of people in death camps. They didn't talk about it, they didn't allude to it. They did it. MILLIONS of people were killed like cattle. This happened in real life. White nationalists are bad. Racists are bad. The people associating themselves with those people shouldn't be. Being a stupid ignorant racist, and building actual in real life death camps and then putting millions of people to death in gas chambers are galaxies apart, and the people implying that idiots saying stupid things on youtube are equivalent to an actual genocide are, in my opinion, engaging in a form of holocaust denial. The death camps were core to the Nazis political ideology. Is there a single US politician calling for this or anything even remotely aligned with it? Your implication that MTG appearing on stage with a racist internet troll is somehow equivalent to her aligning with people engaging in the industrialized murder of millions of people is absurd.
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  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    > They didn't talk about it, they didn't allude to it. They did it. Of course they talked about it, they did so for years before putting their genocidal aspirations into action. > Is there a single US politician calling for this or anything even remotely aligned with it? Sure: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-rep-matt-shea-endorsed-training-children-to-fight-in-holy-war/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-r... This guy is popping on stage with Michael Flynn, who is doing a national tour combining 'Stop the Steal' election theft narratives with New Apostolic Revival theology.
    - thepasswordis 4y ago
      I think this conversation is an example of people living in different worlds, and it's the type of thing that has been created out of the place that things like what I linked above have pushed the discourse. In my world: the nazis were essentially a psychotic death cult who engaged in genocide. They didn't work up to this. This was core to their political ideology starting in 1920. But there seems to be another world where the Nazis were just some bad guys with some bad ideas or something, and in that world random politicians who say anything outside of mainstream, American leftwing political ideology are "nazis". Obviously I think that's bad, since like I said before I think its a form of holocaust denial. In fact this was something that soldiers and journalists worried about when they found the nazi death camps at the end of the war. They worried that in the future people wouldn't believe that this had happened, or wouldn't understand how bad it was. It seems like that has happened. I think that in a large part mass media like twitter has facilitated it. What I would say is: please study history. The nazis weren't just some bad guys. They tried to kill several entire races of people, and erase their existence from history. They succeeding in killing a lot of them before we were able to stop them. It cannot be overstated how evil the Nazis were, and I wish people would stop trying to downplay this.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Disingenuous BS. Since when are political rallies doubling up as evangelical revivals, and why? If I wanted to live in a theocracy I would move to Iran. I don't care for this Tristan Snell person, an obvious political shill. But your protestations ring hollow. The psychological manipulation in this example and a recent Trump rally at Youngstown, Ohio (music playing over the speech, similar coordinated gestures of religiosity in the audience) are screamingly obvious.
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- gruez 4y ago
  It's ironic that you're accusing the parent poster of "Disingenuous BS", when you yourself are engaging in moving the goalposts. The parent post was complaining about how a tweet was unfairly describing a political rally as a "nazi salute", but you're changing the topic to "political rallies doubling up as evangelical revivals" and "psychological manipulation". It's fair to be against this political rally for those reasons, but it's unfair to accuse them of "nazi salute".
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    Right, it just looks like a Nazi salute and it serves the same psychological purpose, but as long as we call it something else it's perfectly OK. I think it would be wiser to ask yourself why this is being deployed at political rallies, rather than complaining about how it is 'unfair' to draw comparisons just because you can identify superficial differences. It's so odd how every time there's an instance of a group of people throwing up what looks just like a nazi salute, some people rush in to explain why it's bad to take note of the similarity. It seems to me that if you're in a culture where people are widely familiar with Nazi iconography, and you're not exploring Nazism in some fictional or educational context, then you'd want to avoid doing and saying things that make you look and sound like a Nazi, such as training a crowd of people to do a stiff-arm salute at a political rally for theatrical effect, the same way it's a bad idea to hold up swastika flags and claim you were being 'ironic' or 'trying to provoke a discussion'.

teachrdan 4y ago

[flagged]

thepasswordis 4y ago
The Nazis were openly and explicitly engaged in genocide. They killed millions of people in death camps. They didn't talk about it, they didn't allude to it. They did it. MILLIONS of people were killed like cattle. This happened in real life. White nationalists are bad. Racists are bad. The people associating themselves with those people shouldn't be. Being a stupid ignorant racist, and building actual in real life death camps and then putting millions of people to death in gas chambers are galaxies apart, and the people implying that idiots saying stupid things on youtube are equivalent to an actual genocide are, in my opinion, engaging in a form of holocaust denial. The death camps were core to the Nazis political ideology. Is there a single US politician calling for this or anything even remotely aligned with it? Your implication that MTG appearing on stage with a racist internet troll is somehow equivalent to her aligning with people engaging in the industrialized murder of millions of people is absurd.
- deleted 4y ago
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- anigbrowl 4y ago
  > They didn't talk about it, they didn't allude to it. They did it. Of course they talked about it, they did so for years before putting their genocidal aspirations into action. > Is there a single US politician calling for this or anything even remotely aligned with it? Sure: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-rep-matt-shea-endorsed-training-children-to-fight-in-holy-war/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-r... This guy is popping on stage with Michael Flynn, who is doing a national tour combining 'Stop the Steal' election theft narratives with New Apostolic Revival theology.
  - thepasswordis 4y ago
    I think this conversation is an example of people living in different worlds, and it's the type of thing that has been created out of the place that things like what I linked above have pushed the discourse. In my world: the nazis were essentially a psychotic death cult who engaged in genocide. They didn't work up to this. This was core to their political ideology starting in 1920. But there seems to be another world where the Nazis were just some bad guys with some bad ideas or something, and in that world random politicians who say anything outside of mainstream, American leftwing political ideology are "nazis". Obviously I think that's bad, since like I said before I think its a form of holocaust denial. In fact this was something that soldiers and journalists worried about when they found the nazi death camps at the end of the war. They worried that in the future people wouldn't believe that this had happened, or wouldn't understand how bad it was. It seems like that has happened. I think that in a large part mass media like twitter has facilitated it. What I would say is: please study history. The nazis weren't just some bad guys. They tried to kill several entire races of people, and erase their existence from history. They succeeding in killing a lot of them before we were able to stop them. It cannot be overstated how evil the Nazis were, and I wish people would stop trying to downplay this.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Disingenuous BS. Since when are political rallies doubling up as evangelical revivals, and why? If I wanted to live in a theocracy I would move to Iran. I don't care for this Tristan Snell person, an obvious political shill. But your protestations ring hollow. The psychological manipulation in this example and a recent Trump rally at Youngstown, Ohio (music playing over the speech, similar coordinated gestures of religiosity in the audience) are screamingly obvious.

deleted 4y ago
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gruez 4y ago
It's ironic that you're accusing the parent poster of "Disingenuous BS", when you yourself are engaging in moving the goalposts. The parent post was complaining about how a tweet was unfairly describing a political rally as a "nazi salute", but you're changing the topic to "political rallies doubling up as evangelical revivals" and "psychological manipulation". It's fair to be against this political rally for those reasons, but it's unfair to accuse them of "nazi salute".
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Right, it just looks like a Nazi salute and it serves the same psychological purpose, but as long as we call it something else it's perfectly OK. I think it would be wiser to ask yourself why this is being deployed at political rallies, rather than complaining about how it is 'unfair' to draw comparisons just because you can identify superficial differences. It's so odd how every time there's an instance of a group of people throwing up what looks just like a nazi salute, some people rush in to explain why it's bad to take note of the similarity. It seems to me that if you're in a culture where people are widely familiar with Nazi iconography, and you're not exploring Nazism in some fictional or educational context, then you'd want to avoid doing and saying things that make you look and sound like a Nazi, such as training a crowd of people to do a stiff-arm salute at a political rally for theatrical effect, the same way it's a bad idea to hold up swastika flags and claim you were being 'ironic' or 'trying to provoke a discussion'.